Where I'm at (and where are you at?) with OASYS these days

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:35 pm

It's generally perceived to be much worse if a product does something in a cumbersome or roundabout way, than if it doesn't do it at all, that's definitely true.

DH56 · Post by **DH56** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:46 am

It's all about the connection for me

Don't we know it cello! That's why you don't get on with modules!

But, if you do like I do and just close your eyes, you can just imagine the (insert name of favourite module here) as being inside the keyboard instead of the internal sound engine and blast away.

I agree that the architecture of the OASYS is very deep, but when you take it down to the program level and master that first it can be very rewarding. Then layering up to 16 of those programs can get these massive swirling, billowing, evolving sounds that stir the senses. And that is not even getting into the KARMA feature yet! I leave that programming to someone who knows what they are doing!

Of course with deepness comes more complication. I don't edit as much on the OASYS simply because there are so many screens involved and it seems cumbersome compared to the V-Synth where there are only two "tones" to worry about and manipulate.

On the other hand, I have found that I don't have to edit the programs that much on the OASYS simply because of the sheer number of available sound engines and the great programming that has already been done by Jack and the boys!

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:32 pm

Dear all,

My OASYS is alive and kickin', although I haven't turned it on much this year. The reason is not musical but a personal matter that I don't want to share here. I simply didn't have enough time for the music I adore, unfortunately.

I still love the OASYS as it is - but I also understand and agree to some extent with all opinions seen above. I think OASYS is and will be perfectly suitable for 99.99% of the keyboarder's job. For me the only problem is portability, because the O in its hard case weighs 60 kilograms. It's better to leave it in the studio from now on. Of course, I haven't learned nor used all its functions yet, so I will have much to do in the following years.

For live/simpler usage I recently got an SV-1 and an R3. I really love and enjoy them, too.

Thanks Kevin for the good question. It was nice to see good old friends here again.

Best regards,

Akos

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:39 pm

Sharp wrote:Hi Kevin.
You keep on saying I'm not into Synths across different threads, and every time I address you on this because it's totally nonsense. Yet here we are once more and your saying the exact same things.

Why do you keep doing this?
It's very annoying and disrespectful.

As for your views on the OASYS, that's all fine by me. It's your opinion and your reasons for sticking with the OASYS. I can totally respect anyone views even if I don't agree with them at all.

I choose the KRONOS for all the reasons I've already said. I see no point in repeating myself and flogging a dead horse.

Regards
Sharp.

Where I'm coming from is this -

By synthesist, I mean someone whose prime focus is composing music and designing sounds (mostly for musical compositions) using synthesizers across a range of synthesis types.

In this, I daily engage a large range of synthesizers including well maintained classics like the CS80, CS40M, DX1, SY77 & SY99, TG77, AN1x, Nord Lead 2, VP330, Juno 106, Jupiter 6, JD800, XV5080, V-Synth GT, Jupiter 80, Prophet T8 & 10, MonoPoly, Sigma & Trident Mk2, T3, O1W, Z1, Triton, Karma, OASYS, Monotribe, Moog Little Phatty, - among others, within my facility. The list of soft synths and iPad synths available to me is also extensive.

I give the list here so you understand where I'm coming from in my argument - one of wide, continuing experience. Whether it be subtractive synthesis, programming an SY99 from scratch or designing new sounds on OASYS STR-1, it's something I engage repeatedly and regularly.

I claim no special talent or inside line in any of this - except I'm in a position to be able to compare many of the very best types of synthesis and physical implementations of synthesizer, past and present. What am I comparing? - the outputs of good engineers and designers, and not so good engineers and designers!! There are a multitude of stunning ideas and implementations from times past that are totally relevant and valid to day but designers today are either ignorant of them and their value, or their parent company economic model will not allow for it. I have spent literally thousands of hours at all of those instruments and can tell you, for example, how much quicker your arms become fatigued while programming one when compared to another, among a range of other pros and cons, advantages and disadvantages (admittedly all from my stand point). And I do not collect synthesizers for the sake of it, I use them in active media projects and art-based composition projects.

One area I have essentially no experience on is sampling - I just never got into it. Modular synthesizers are another.

So from this stand point, programming the OASYS is tricky at the best of times. You are totally dependent on the screen, and it's size and variable tilt are very, very important. Even at that there are sessions where I am physically exhausted having spent several hours working at it. Currently I am designing two extensive sound sets for it based on MOD-7 and MS20EX that may become commercial projects - and each taking hundreds of hours (and likely over 1000 hours for the MOD-7 set when it eventually gets complete in more than one year form now). I can promise you, with that level of programming, I need every advantage I can get, and my experience at Kronos (admittedly only in a shop trying it out) was concerning for such extensive and detailed sound design.

Back on to your synthesis experience - while I don't know you well enough to know the depth and breadth of your synthesis experience, I get the impression form this forum that your forte is sampling, and not synthesis in the way I'm referring to. And as we've had out on numerous threads / debates, you don't see it a priority to have a forum for Monotribe and Monotron and I have taken from that that you don't see their relevance because you'r e not into synthesis. I know you've given what seem to you to be legitimate reasons (and I accept them because you run and own the forum!!) but I don't agree with them because I see Monotribe as one of the most significant steps Korg has taken of late (along with iMS20 and iPolySix). But I don't believe you do and it's for those reasons that I've sensed that you are more into Sampling, Workstations, Arranger Keyboards and Romplers in general, and NOT synthesizers.

I'll stand corrected of course because as said I don't know you well enough - it's just the impression I get.

Kevin

Post by **Sharp** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:50 pm

Hi Kevin.
What keyboards you own or what your synthesis experience is has nothing to do with this.

When I tell you something personal about me and then you keep on saying the complete opposite about me. That's you either not listening, or you intentionally trying to disrespect me.

As for your comment about the Monotribe.

I told you **repeatedly** about the process of how a new section gets created and what the function of the general areas are in relation to new sections opening, or not. I told you it was nothing personal and my personal preference has nothing to do with any of the decision making process. You didn't listen to me then, and your still not listening to me.

What part of this do you still not get?

There is a system in place that has existed since day one and **IT DOES NOT** revolve around any personal preferences of what interests me more as far as musician instrument go.

Every decision that's made is for the greater good of ALL our members.

Regards
Sharp.

cello · Post by **cello** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:03 pm

I know a great wee place in Malahide - Gibney's. Am sure it's not far from both of you. Am also sure that a chat over a fine libation or three will sort it all out. Heck, I'll pay! ... that's something coming from a Scotsman

I suspect you are both in agreement over more things than it appears - eg thinking of other people, enjoying creativity and making music.

Kronos vs OASYS has no possibility of a winner as folks will come from different angles/backgrounds/approaches etc.

But the original question - ie where are you at with the OASYS - is a very interesting one indeed and as Akos mentioned, nice to see some of the 'old' OASYSians still around

cello · Post by **cello** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:05 pm

Akos Janca wrote:The reason is not musical but a personal matter that I don't want to share here.

So sorry to read of this Akos. Hope it is not anything too serious. Am sending good wishes and blessings over to Budapest and hope that 2013 is everything you want/need it to be.

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:27 pm

cello wrote:I know a great wee place in Malahide...
Heck, I'll pay! ... that's something coming from a Scotsman

I love your attitude and sense of humour. And I will pay the next round!

cello wrote:
Akos Janca wrote:The reason is not musical but a personal matter that I don't want to share here.
So sorry to read of this Akos. Hope it is not anything too serious. Am sending good wishes and blessings over to Budapest and hope that 2013 is everything you want/need it to be.

Neil, thank you very much for your kind and friendly words. It really means much to me! The situation I'm in is not easy now but it's getting better and I will get over it.

My very best personal regards to you and your family - and of course to all of you on this forum! Guys, I wish you a very happy and MUSICAL new year! Regardless of origin, skin colour, religion, or whatever synth you like.

Akos

cello · Post by **cello** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:47 pm

Akos Janca wrote:
cello wrote:I know a great wee place in Malahide...
Heck, I'll pay! ... that's something coming from a Scotsman
I love your attitude and sense of humour. And I will pay the next round!

They will be the best of friends by the end of the evening with so many rounds being bought

Akos Janca wrote:...but it's getting better and I will get over it.

And I love your attitude - good for you, sir!

Do let me know if there's anything at all I can do to help.

Thanks for the good wishes; much appreciated. I will toast your health when the bells sound tomorrow night. I will be without Mrs Cello as she is currently on tour in China and doesn't return until 7th Jan, so will be good to think of those in far away places at midnight

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:02 pm

cello wrote:Do let me know if there's anything at all I can do to help.

You already did. Thank you - my health is OK, please toast my calmness, too!

I like this forum also for being able to find good distant friends.

Dany · Post by **Dany** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:34 am

Akos, boldog új évet, és minden jót Önnek és családjának!

Apart from tipping over this thread into the absurd, I should finally respond to Kevin's initial question:

MOD-7 and STR-1 were the reasons for my OASYS purchase. MOD-7 is like the successor of Yamaha's SY-99 and the OASYS' STR-1 represents the polyphonic physical model of a resonating string, just like the Yamaha VP-1 did, which, apart from some prototypes, never went in production. Yamaha dropped the whole FM and physical modeling synthesis development (with some rare exceptions like the FS1R), in which they were the market leader and the OASYS is like the fulfillment of those hopes, which Yamaha initially raised in the 90s, but never fulfilled until today.

I am always looking for synthesis forms, which offer the modulation of the overtones of a sound in the "kernel" of the sound, like FM synthesis or physical modeling do. This is of course impossible to achieve with static sampled waveforms, where you can only filter the overtones of those samples and switch between samples with different overtones, which is never as responsive and expressive as creating the whole waveform in realtime, based on your playing style (velocity, etc,) which is the case with MOD-7 and STR-1 (and also with the Roland's SuperNATURAL technology).

MOD-7 and STR-1 also allows the dynamic modulation of sampled waveforms, creating new dynamic overtones out of them, inspiring new life into them, which is unique and impossible to achieve with just sample based subtractive synthesis, like with HD-1.

The OASYS' UI is much better suited for programming MOD-7 and STR-1 sounds, than the Kronos' UI. The OASYS is still unmatched by any other current product in this regard and therefore still represents the future for me. (I wonder what Yamaha will release at NAMM 2013...)

So I have very similar motivations and views concerning the OASYS, like Kevin...

...which is obviously not yet the case with the JP-80, but there is still the chance of a spontaneous recovery...

-

Mike Conway · Post by **Mike Conway** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:17 am

cello wrote:But the original question - ie where are you at with the OASYS - is a very interesting one indeed

The OASYS only had 3 engines, when I bought it for the full 8 grand (HD-1, AL-1 and CX-3). I was on a "high" then and you can only imagine my excitement as it grew.....(STR-1, LAC-1, MOD-7, EXs3, features added, like PolyUnison, etc.). Heck, I was even ecstatic, when Playback inside Track Event Edit was added.

I actually looooooooove the sequencer, despite all of the grumbling about it. That's not to say I wouldn't mind some improvements, but if you operate the OASYS organically - Tone Adjust to adjust track velocity, etc. - it can do whatever the heck you want. I am not restricted with my compositions and that's after working with the excellent Roland sequencer, Yamaha, etc. Try working with an E-MU OS sequencer and you'll realize how good you've got it!

Dany wrote: MOD-7 is like the successor of Yamaha's SY-99.... Yamaha dropped the whole FM and physical modeling synthesis development (with some rare exceptions like the FS1R), in which they were the market leader and the OASYS is like the fulfillment of those hopes

The OASYS' UI is much better suited for programming MOD-7 and STR-1 sounds, than the Kronos' UI. The OASYS is still unmatched by any other current product in this regard and therefore still represents the future for me.

Yes, yes, yes....to everything you said, but particularly those points! I scored more projects, more songs, tweaked more sounds on my still working SY99 than any other synth. Since the OASYS added MOD-7, I rarely touch it, though I keep it as there are hundreds of compositions and many of my own sounds on it.

DennyC · Post by **DennyC** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:10 pm

I am hoping for a Happy New Year for all the Korg forum members and staff. Mike, I had to do the same thing with my Kronos...put it on an extreme angle. I was going to post a pic here but--How in the world do you do that? I think I tried every conceivable tweak but still no cigar.

Cello, the best also to you and your family.

Official: HAPPY NEW YEAR !!
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Mike Conway · Post by **Mike Conway** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:53 pm

DennyC wrote:Mike, I had to do the same thing with my Kronos...put it on an extreme angle. I was going to post a pic here but--How in the world do you do that? I think I tried every conceivable tweak but still no cigar.

You need someplace to host the picture. Perhaps Photobucket or some such place. "Jpg" format works best. Then just use the

I won't string these together, but the next 3 lines would be a single line:

Whenever you want to see how someone used code, just "quote" the post and look at the text. You can do that with the pic, below:

DennyC · Post by **DennyC** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:43 pm

Thanks for the info Mike. I am now considering moving the Kronos to a bottom position on another keyboard stand and putting my Roland where the Kronos is. When it is at a exaggerated angle it makes it harder to play--and of course I have to stand and "hunch over it". When you have to put the Kronos over the O, it has to sit pretty high to accomodate the O's large touch screen.

p.s. I'd love to put the O on top but I think with a Kronos 61 on the bottom it would make the stand unstable.