have you ever actually seen the amount of skill needed to do a good and interesting dj set? I can play keyboard and play some bass pretty easily, but the amount of work you need to do, and do right in performing with turntables, grooveboxes and the like (what most guitarists would think of as not real performance) is overwhelming to me. I've seen people who are more impressive with their groovebox performances than that of technically excellent guitarists/drummers whatever. search for "Wesen" on youtube and watch his 40 min liveset practive. that's a LOT to remember if you want to keep the music moving.
then again, if all you do is press the play button and pretend to tweak knobs, it's not much of a live performance. Nevertheless, anyone who makes music is a musician. Isn't that self-proving considering the meaning of the word "musician"? anyone can make music on an electribe, but anyone can pick up a guitar and play smoke on the water as well. just because a guitar is more physical than a groovebox does not mean it's a more "real" instrument. god I hate people who consider guitars to be the superior of all instruments.
Are Electribe users "real musicians"?
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gil videla
- Senior Member
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:39 pm
Paul
I know exactly where you're comming from.
All I gotta say is if you're having fun doing what you're doing don't stop believing. Forget about the definitions about what is real or not.
RUSH and YES - definitely musicians, without a doubt. I grew up as a teen worshipping Peart, Bruford, etc. Getty (GARY) lee and all that stuff.
I've seen RUSH 100,000 times in concert in my youth and in hindsight I ask "WHY?" are they real musicians yes, but Peart played the same goddamn drum solo for MANY MANY Years, every tour he'd switch it up a little bit. Gary (Geddy) Lee never had no solos, but Peart was note for note the same night after night
SO WHO IS THE REAL MACHINE? EMX or PEART?
Does it matter? NO RUSH sells out every night, even though they are robots! Kraftwerk are the robots too!
No go plugin your emx and get some Tijuaneros groovin!
I know exactly where you're comming from.
All I gotta say is if you're having fun doing what you're doing don't stop believing. Forget about the definitions about what is real or not.
RUSH and YES - definitely musicians, without a doubt. I grew up as a teen worshipping Peart, Bruford, etc. Getty (GARY) lee and all that stuff.
I've seen RUSH 100,000 times in concert in my youth and in hindsight I ask "WHY?" are they real musicians yes, but Peart played the same goddamn drum solo for MANY MANY Years, every tour he'd switch it up a little bit. Gary (Geddy) Lee never had no solos, but Peart was note for note the same night after night
SO WHO IS THE REAL MACHINE? EMX or PEART?
Does it matter? NO RUSH sells out every night, even though they are robots! Kraftwerk are the robots too!
No go plugin your emx and get some Tijuaneros groovin!
Ive always considered myself a DJ first and foremost. I look at things, musically speaking from a Dj's point of view, with a DJ's eye for picking things apart and putting them back together again.
When im programming a beat on either the ESX, the ES, or the MPC...im executing musical ideas using all the conventions and principles of that of any other so called "musician".
Im fascinated by technology, and my music, our music..is a product of that technology. Im not ashamed of that at all. I embrace that factor, im a programmer, a beat maker, a crate digger
If quote/unquote real musicians out there dont dig my approach to music thats their problem. But in the end, remember that were all in this for the same thing...THE MUSIC. Who cares how it was made, if its good its good.
The ends justify the means. Simple as that.
Their are no rules to this!
When im programming a beat on either the ESX, the ES, or the MPC...im executing musical ideas using all the conventions and principles of that of any other so called "musician".
Im fascinated by technology, and my music, our music..is a product of that technology. Im not ashamed of that at all. I embrace that factor, im a programmer, a beat maker, a crate digger
If quote/unquote real musicians out there dont dig my approach to music thats their problem. But in the end, remember that were all in this for the same thing...THE MUSIC. Who cares how it was made, if its good its good.
The ends justify the means. Simple as that.
Their are no rules to this!
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jerseykorg
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:43 am
While I suppose Thelonious Monk and a guy banging a coconut are technically musicians there's hardly any comparison.Ruso wrote:It's pretty easy to define a musician. A musician is a person who makes music, be it banging coconuts together or rocking out on a violin or a circuit bent baby toy. If you can make something pleasant for the ears you are a musician.
The secret of most great electronic musicians is that they have studied music theory and probably played piano from a young age.
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radiatesky
- Junior Member
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I love my electribes because they are intuitive and smart... they are just as much a "cheat" as a guitar pedal recreating distortion or a synth emulating a piano. It depends on whether you can turn them inside out and make them your own. I guess a classical musician looks down on an electric guitar in much the same way... open your window again.
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I call bull s**t on that.... I see absolutely no need to have music theory knowledge to make ELECTRONIC music..... nor play the piano....jerseykorg wrote:While I suppose Thelonious Monk and a guy banging a coconut are technically musicians there's hardly any comparison.Ruso wrote:It's pretty easy to define a musician. A musician is a person who makes music, be it banging coconuts together or rocking out on a violin or a circuit bent baby toy. If you can make something pleasant for the ears you are a musician.
The secret of most great electronic musicians is that they have studied music theory and probably played piano from a young age.
I have had neither and actually refuse to ever look into it. In fact most people I know who deal with electronic music don't have knowledge of theory.
I don't mean to sound arrogant or disrespectful.... but in my opinion the further away from tradition you go in making electronic music the better it sounds and the more original your sound is... with that said it in turn makes you a better electronic musician....
Looking at the fact that I swear by this, have a couple of very respectable shows under my belt as well as respect of my knowledge on both this forum and electribe-forum.com I would say the above statements are true.... not to mention the person (sorry don't want to dig) who did take music theory and had no luck applying it....
One more point... by saying that you need theory and previous music experience you are saying that some genres are not musical..... for example... hip-hop... which is primarily sample based..... as well as a lot of other break beat based music like drum n bass and.... wait... anything else you can make on an electribe ESX or any other sampler....
I think what is more important is a good trained... or trainable ear and many hours in the studio practicing....
Also since an artist has to play a music instrument.... and an electribe is certainly a music instrument.... it inevitably makes him a musician...
The name "Musician" implies one who makes music. So yes, if you're making some sort of music with your electribe, and you have some kind of grip on what music is and know a bit of theory, chords, etc...
Congratulations, you are a musician.
Another point to make, playing an instrument is something anyone can do. A monkey can pluck a string. However, someone with training has the skill to make the guitar sound good. Just like someone who's new will pick up an electribe and make simple noises, but practice, they can pound out a track that's deliciously groovy...with more practice, they could very well write a song on the fly and no one would be able to tell if it's live or memorex.
Get Keith Richards in front of an electribe and see what he does. More than likely, he'll make some simple sounds that are far from mature...just like putting an ace electribe-ist behind a guitar will produce less than listenable results.
Only elistist would give a damn, anyway. If you're making music, good for you, if you're not, keep trying. That's the only thing you really have to worry about.
Congratulations, you are a musician.
Another point to make, playing an instrument is something anyone can do. A monkey can pluck a string. However, someone with training has the skill to make the guitar sound good. Just like someone who's new will pick up an electribe and make simple noises, but practice, they can pound out a track that's deliciously groovy...with more practice, they could very well write a song on the fly and no one would be able to tell if it's live or memorex.
Get Keith Richards in front of an electribe and see what he does. More than likely, he'll make some simple sounds that are far from mature...just like putting an ace electribe-ist behind a guitar will produce less than listenable results.
Only elistist would give a damn, anyway. If you're making music, good for you, if you're not, keep trying. That's the only thing you really have to worry about.
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jerseykorg
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:43 am
Oh man, such ignorance. This reminds me of some kid who writes a program in visual basic so thinks he doesn't have to study computer science to be a good programmer.
The best hip-hop producers all have music theory knowledge. Timbaland, Scott Storch and Pharrell some of the hottest producers right now are all versed in music theory. J-Dilla, darling of hip-hop purists, had a jazz bassist as a father and is reported to be able to hear absolute pitch. Furthermore hip-hop beats today are mostly made with synthesizers not samplers.
How can you have a trained ear without music theory? Ear training means being able to identify keys, chords, intervals and time signatures, all of which are matters of theory.
Contrary to popular belief music theory allows you to be more creative because you can actually identify and focus on new ideas instead of just hoping to randomly stumble upon something that sounds good...and you know why that stuff seem to sound good? Because it sounds familiar to your ear, meaning not really creative. Do you real think all these derivative genres built off the amen break are taking music in creative directions?
People without music theory are respected on internet forums, people with music theory are respected at Julliard...
The best hip-hop producers all have music theory knowledge. Timbaland, Scott Storch and Pharrell some of the hottest producers right now are all versed in music theory. J-Dilla, darling of hip-hop purists, had a jazz bassist as a father and is reported to be able to hear absolute pitch. Furthermore hip-hop beats today are mostly made with synthesizers not samplers.
How can you have a trained ear without music theory? Ear training means being able to identify keys, chords, intervals and time signatures, all of which are matters of theory.
Contrary to popular belief music theory allows you to be more creative because you can actually identify and focus on new ideas instead of just hoping to randomly stumble upon something that sounds good...and you know why that stuff seem to sound good? Because it sounds familiar to your ear, meaning not really creative. Do you real think all these derivative genres built off the amen break are taking music in creative directions?
People without music theory are respected on internet forums, people with music theory are respected at Julliard...
Knowledge of music theory is a powerful and useful thing. The more theory I learn, the more its value becomes apparent. But I won't go so far as to say that it is necessary for the creation of good music.
In my book, the most vital ingredient in good music is sincerity; in other words, a spiritual, emotional investment in your music. Without it, even the most talented, trained, knowledgable musician's work will come across as empty. With it, even the most ignorant novice can create something vibrant and meaningful.
In my book, the most vital ingredient in good music is sincerity; in other words, a spiritual, emotional investment in your music. Without it, even the most talented, trained, knowledgable musician's work will come across as empty. With it, even the most ignorant novice can create something vibrant and meaningful.