Korg Forums

Disclaimer: I am quite a newbie and so may be completely immature. But after playing around with the Kronos for over 5 months this is my take on the OS' user experience.

1. Not Intuitive at all - I am not sure why even simple operations like Save, copy etc that everyone is very familiar with in the technology world is kind of extremely complicated. It has a 7 inch touch screen and yet it is all so confusing when you compare basic operations with a normal 7 inch tablet. Try exporting a sequence into a wav or mp3 into a pendrive. I had to refer a million online resources to get this basic thing done and BTW getting it done was a stunt altogether. I would've expected an 'Export As' button like you expect in any other basic software.

2. Learning Curve is too steep - In continuation to my previous point, since its not intuitive the learning curve is too high. Every operation requires some sort of training. Though the 'Help' button is a relief it isn't helping too much I would say.

3. Touch Screen feature not completely utilized - Fortunately the 3.0 OS comes with touch and drag. Until then we had to choose a button and then use the dial or the up down key to change the values. I somehow feel the touch screen is still not being utilzed completely. For e.g. In sequence mode if you have to modify notes of a particular track, I would expect to click on the track, pinch zoom it and then press and hold to select and probably swipe it away to delete it. As of now, I have to choose a track then use the drop down menu which would bring up a dialog box and details of the note to be modified have to be manually entered in the input boxes. Not the best way to perform such an easy task that too when working on a touch screen.

4. Disk Mode - For any smart phone user the Disk mode is kind of very strange. A simple tweak could completely obliterate the need for the disk mode or make it less complicated. For e.g. If each song in a sequencer had a 'Save', 'Save As' button it would save time in going to the disk mode from the SEQ mode and then using the drop down menu to to Save the SEQ from there. Unnecessary navigation to and forth.

I am a part-time musician and full-time technologist working in the user experience domain for quite sometime and probably that has triggered these thoughts. Again, I may be completely wrong so please excuse me if I am sounding peevish! I would recommend Korg to consider 'Human Centric Design' principles in its upcoming versions so that the user experience complements normal human behavioural expectations. The learning curve would then be very less and more options can be explored rather than spending time figuring out simple operations.

Any comments?

I agree some usability could be improved, but you're working with an instrument with underpinnings from 2005. To make the Kronos behave more like a tablet would be a HUGE software overhaul.

The help menu on board is sort of a quick reference. The real full manuals and parameter guides are your friend. Still technically written, but more in depth explanation wise. You know, RTFM!

Intuitive? If you've used korgs in the past, much sticks to the previous nomenclature. So it's fairly easy to get around IMO. Disk utilities have always been primitive (if even present) on these instruments, so it's not a surprise. Remember, 2005! I suppose they could pretty it up a bit with colors and fonts, though don't know the coding involved. My guess is C on a Linux platform.

johnmanoahs wrote:Disclaimer: I am quite a newbie and so may be completely immature. But after playing around with the Kronos for over 5 months this is my take on the OS' user experience.



I am a part-time musician and full-time technologist working in the user experience domain for quite sometime and probably that has triggered these thoughts. Again, I may be completely wrong so please excuse me if I am sounding peevish! I would recommend Korg to consider 'Human Centric Design' principles in its upcoming versions so that the user experience complements normal human behavioural expectations. The learning curve would then be very less and more options can be explored rather than spending time figuring out simple operations.

Any comments?

you sound a little frustrated. I don't understand the comparison to a 7" tablet.
The Korg touchscreen has been around since 1999. Its not massively changed since then. So apples to oranges, IMO

this is subjective as you should know. Triton owners have a leg up on the Kronos user experience ( as you phrase it). Thus, there is a large base of Kronos owners that have developed memory muscle on basic mode navigation. to me, using Disk and global is straightforward.

There is always room for improvement and I think most would agree there is some high learning curve. This is offset by a very enthusiastic community here that is extremely helpful

//

not trying to belittle or discount the OPs "frustrations", but the comments seem to center around sequencing issues.

I find navigating around the unit as far as programming, saving, etc to be seamless and intuitive once I learned Korg speak for programming parameters.

I purchased a little touch screen stylus and its been very helpful in using the screen for navigation and programming.

I am not one of the younger generation who grew up with touch screens, I grew up pre-midi and digital, but embrace and conquer the technology, not the other way around

I'll respond inline to keep things congruent and hopefully clear.

johnmanoahs wrote:Disclaimer: I am quite a newbie and so may be completely immature. But after playing around with the Kronos for over 5 months this is my take on the OS' user experience.

My own disclaimer - I just got the Kronos not even 3 months ago, and while I've been programming synths for years, this is my first really deep experience with Korg boards. I've got less time than you on it, I've also been in technology for over 15 years and have specialization in development and training.

johnmanoahs wrote: 1. Not Intuitive at all - I am not sure why even simple operations like Save, copy etc that everyone is very familiar with in the technology world is kind of extremely complicated. It has a 7 inch touch screen and yet it is all so confusing when you compare basic operations with a normal 7 inch tablet.

As you know, in the UI business there's a difference between intuitive and discoverability. (How familiar is it vs how easy is it to find without guidance)
When you make a comparison between a tablet (Let's say iPad or Android) vs a highly specialized instrument, there are definitely going to be differences. I think you have an unrealistic comparison between something which is meant for "dummies" ie; Anyone should be able to pick up a tablet and understand basically how to use it, or at least be able to discover what it can do - compare that to a very specific instrument. What you consider intuitive I might not simply based on our backgrounds, what we've worked with before and so on. Do you think the nuances of driving a forklift are easily discoverable? Not really.

That said, yes, there are areas where I've found it hard to remember where certain perimeters are but generally things are laid out in a logical way. Maybe not in a way YOU find logical. Don't compare it to a tablet however - it's not a tablet and it's a poor comparison. Take it for what it actually is: A keyboard.

johnmanoahs wrote: 2. Learning Curve is too steep - In continuation to my previous point, since its not intuitive the learning curve is too high. Every operation requires some sort of training. Though the 'Help' button is a relief it isn't helping too much I would say.

Too steep is subjective. Too steep for you perhaps. That's a problem of learning, not a function of the system itself. If it were actually too steep, then either no-one or almost no-one would be able to handle making manipulations or changes.

Everything in there with the exception of Karma is based on existing synthesis types. If you understand the basics of general synthesis, then almost everything makes sense. There are some things that people scratch their heads at, but if you don't at all have a foundation in general synthesis, you're aiming your targets too high. Start with the basics first but too steep is a subject way of saying "It's too hard for me" which sounds like giving up too early. It's a self-limiting belief system that you have.

Keep in mind I've had this thing 3 months, and I'm recording video tutorials for other people. I'm in no way a genius, but I'm stubborn and don't give up until I "get it".

johnmanoahs wrote: 3. Touch Screen feature not completely utilized - Fortunately the 3.0 OS comes with touch and drag. Until then we had to choose a button and then use the dial or the up down key to change the values. I somehow feel the touch screen is still not being utilized completely.

I agree. The technology I think is the limitation here though - once again you're alluding multi-touch capabilities to something like a tablet which have completely different abilities. This isn't a tablet, however I agree if the UI were able to handle multi-point touches to do things like zoom, panning, scrolling, etc... but then we'd have to consider how much CPU usage that'd take away from what's there already and personally I'd rather more effects and polyphony than being able to zoom using a touch screen.

johnmanoahs wrote: 4. Disk Mode - For any smart phone user the Disk mode is kind of very strange. A simple tweak could completely obliterate the need for the disk mode or make it less complicated. For e.g. If each song in a sequencer had a 'Save', 'Save As' button it would save time in going to the disk mode from the SEQ mode and then using the drop down menu to to Save the SEQ from there. Unnecessary navigation to and forth.

I agree. It could/should be simpler.
My big gripe here is more about saving sounds - I'm forced to save an entire bank of sounds instead of individual sounds. In addition, I find it odd that I can't load individual patches within a bank into the next open slot. I have to load an entire bank from PCG.

Also, why aren't my samples stored as a sub-file within a PCG? Why is there a separate folder created?

johnmanoahs wrote: I am a part-time musician and full-time technologist working in the user experience domain for quite sometime and probably that has triggered these thoughts. Again, I may be completely wrong so please excuse me if I am sounding peevish! I would recommend Korg to consider 'Human Centric Design' principles in its upcoming versions so that the user experience complements normal human behavioural expectations. The learning curve would then be very less and more options can be explored rather than spending time figuring out simple operations.

Any comments?

I personally would say you're coming at it from the wrong angle. Human centric design principals are also somewhat designed for the masses. Do you think the majority of the masses know what an LFO does or is? While I don't disagree with all of your points, remember this is a Unix-based system. Ubuntu is NOT the most discoverable or intuitive system either, however they're making strides. And it's a computer with mouse/keyboard input, not a touch screen interface.

When talking about touch-screen interfaces, they're using the same technology that we had 10-15 years ago on mobile devices (Old Palm devices right?) but I imagine it's for a multitude of reasons that they chose what they did, whether it be Cost, Polyphony, CPU/GPU Utilization, or other factors.

I would love to see a 1080p 10" screen with 10+ point multi-touch on a Kronos, but then the horsepower needed to support that would be insane. The OS would need a large re-write, and the R+D in that for a proprietary product would be... Well only the elite would be able to afford the Korg Titan™ (Hypothetical Next-gen workstation pretend name, patent pending)

In my opinion, a learning curve is often dependent on the amount of work you're willing to put into it, as well as the type of learning and effectiveness of the learning strategy you're employing. Personally, the only thing I'm struggling with is Karma, and even that I set realistic expectations for myself that it could take a solid 6 months before I start to really wrap my head around how to use it effectively.

Those are my 2c on the matter though.

musicman2011 wrote:not trying to belittle or discount the OPs "frustrations", but the comments seem to center around sequencing issues.

I find navigating around the unit as far as programming, saving, etc to be seamless and intuitive once I learned Korg speak for programming parameters.

I purchased a little touch screen stylus and its been very helpful in using the screen for navigation and programming.

I am not one of the younger generation who grew up with touch screens, I grew up pre-midi and digital, but embrace and conquer the technology, not the other way around

and having been an early Motif and Jv/xv Fantom owner, the " Korg approach " is far better, IMO.

I don't believe the O/p did a ' peer group ' comparison with other complex workstations for the " user experience " . That would have added objectivity to a technologist approach, I think.

GregC wrote: and having been an early Motif and Jv/xv Fantom owner, the " Korg approach " is far better, IMO.

I don't believe the O/p did a ' peer group ' comparison with other complex workstations for the " user experience " . That would have added objectivity to a technologist approach, I think.

I come from the Kurzweil world and my perspective is that I'm still more of a fan of their approach for loading/saving samples, loops, etc.

If there was a way I could take their way of sound management, and incorporate it into *MY* Kronos (I wouldn't want to screw up everyone else's stuff for my own selfish reasons) I would in a heartbeat. It just makes more sense to me the Kurzweil way. I feel like I have more finite control, and issues with Setups (combi's) and Program relationships don't exist in Kurzweil world.

(You can select to load a combi, and it'll load the appropriate programs and samples to the "next available location" if you want, and automatically link the combi to the programs in their current location. I was disappointed when I found out Korg doesn't work this way)

johnmanoahs wrote:Disclaimer: I am quite a newbie and so may be completely immature. But after playing around with the Kronos for over 5 months this is my take on the OS' user experience.

1. Not Intuitive at all - I am not sure why even simple operations like Save, copy etc that everyone is very familiar with in the technology world is kind of extremely complicated. It has a 7 inch touch screen and yet it is all so confusing when you compare basic operations with a normal 7 inch tablet. Try exporting a sequence into a wav or mp3 into a pendrive. I had to refer a million online resources to get this basic thing done and BTW getting it done was a stunt altogether. I would've expected an 'Export As' button like you expect in any other basic software.

I don't agree on the save and copy comments, those are really easy to do in my opinion, but your comment on exporting a sequence into a wav is something i agree with. There are more of these little hidden things that can be quite difficult to find, like for instance setting the song length to more that the default 64 length. The first time you have no idea why your song recording is stopped at 64. These kind of things could definitely be improved. On the other hand, you had to look in a million places, but one search on this forum would have give you the answer probably. I've seen the song to wav proces explained multiple times by forum members on this forum.

johnmanoahs wrote: 2. Learning Curve is too steep - In continuation to my previous point, since its not intuitive the learning curve is too high. Every operation requires some sort of training. Though the 'Help' button is a relief it isn't helping too much I would say.

yes, the learning curve is steep, but always keep in mind that you are learning to operate 9 synths instead of one. Personally i think Korg did a tremendous job by using a gui interface that is more or less the same for each synth engine while keeping respect for the synth engine itself. If you know the interface for one synth than you know them for all engines. (like for instance the EG envelopes, filters, LFO's, Effects, etc)

johnmanoahs wrote: 4. Disk Mode - For any smart phone user the Disk mode is kind of very strange. A simple tweak could completely obliterate the need for the disk mode or make it less complicated. For e.g. If each song in a sequencer had a 'Save', 'Save As' button it would save time in going to the disk mode from the SEQ mode and then using the drop down menu to to Save the SEQ from there. Unnecessary navigation to and forth.

yes would be nice, on the other hand, now it's also clear, if you want to load or save something in the kronos it's just a matter of pressing the disk button, it avoids the context sensitive menus you would have in each mode (song, combi, programs, etc)

the touchscreen technollogy is ten years old, so is the interface, as well as the physical touch screen technollogy... Take a windows smartphone of ten years old and compare it to that and you will see a comparable type of user interface..

I surely think the interfacing of the Kronos is up for an upadate..


However i realised this when i ordered mine, and so i bought the K88 for its functionallity and the integration between the sound engines and Karma..

I think that all these disadvantages - a consequence of the fact that the foundations were laid by the operating system many years ago. All these years, OS was improved. However, I hope that the KORG currently already working on a completely new operating system, which instead of cosmetic improvements will be radically changed. In addition, I hope that in addition to the operating system will be changed and the hardware. In particular, it will make the transition to 64-bit system, allows you to remove the known limitations (the amount of available RAM, memory banks, etc.). And will create a new station rather than cosmetic wooden side covers.

Actually you can load individual programs from a file.Just open the saved program bank and select the one or ones you want then press load and it will show a destination bank and program slot. Of course make sure you are not overwriting something that you like.

ahutnick wrote:Actually you can load individual programs from a file.Just open the saved program bank and select the one or ones you want then press load and it will show a destination bank and program slot. Of course make sure you are not overwriting something that you like.

I agree that there are no problems. In addition, can use the program PCGTools

I see plenty of room for UI modernization but we've been pretty spoiled with the recent explosion of multitouch devices. Consider that the iPad, which is often held up as an example, is not even five years old, and was considered revolutionary at the time.

Korg's core business is building musical instruments and I appreciate the underlying logic in the Kronos. It's true that there is a lot to learn but if you're familiar with basic synthesis and audio routing a lot of it falls into place quickly.

The Kronos would be a disaster if all the modern tablet animations and swiping was implemented. They take real CPU away from the critical job of playing sounds. Even though the Kronos uses a stock standard motherboard, it is not a computer. You can save a bundle by using a DAW if that's what you want. In fact to the OP, I think that is exactly what you really want. Hardware synth buyers want hardware. You either get it or you don't.

B