Korg Forums

I trying to use Karma to program a Timpani roll. I have Timpani assigned to two keys. I setup a nice roll that alternates between the two Timpani pitches. So far so good. (what fun)

I want to add a volume ramp so when I hit the keys it starts at one volume and as I hold it, it builds. I'm suspecting Karma can perhaps change the velocities over time? The roll lasts about 2 seconds. Any ideas?

Geo

Try the KARMA - Lab forums?

geoelectro wrote:I trying to use Karma to program a Timpani roll. I have Timpani assigned to two keys. I setup a nice roll that alternates between the two Timpani pitches. So far so good. (what fun)

I want to add a volume ramp so when I hit the keys it starts at one volume and as I hold it, it builds. I'm suspecting Karma can perhaps change the velocities over time? The roll lasts about 2 seconds. Any ideas?

Geo

just add an envelope to the amp section of the Timpani HD1 program
- press the AMP-EQ tab
- press the AMP-EG1 (or EG2 depending on your program)
- now in the envelope section, see the time row, there in the attack section enter the value of 70

a value of 70 means 1,8 seconds to reach the desired volume level.

Another way is to assign aftertouch or the joystick (JS+Y) to the amp level. You can do this in the AMP-Mod tab.

QuiRobinez wrote: just add an envelope to the amp section of the Timpani HD1 program
...
Another way is to assign aftertouch or the joystick (JS+Y) to the amp level. You can do this in the AMP-Mod tab.

Since the roll is created by rapidly alternating attacks, wouldn't the amp envelope be useless for this? I assume the envelope would be retriggering with each strike.

The aftertouch or joystick idea sounds good. If there's a lowpass filter on the timp have it open up while volume increases to simulate the way a real drum would respond to a crescendo.

techeverlasting wrote:

QuiRobinez wrote: just add an envelope to the amp section of the Timpani HD1 program
...
Another way is to assign aftertouch or the joystick (JS+Y) to the amp level. You can do this in the AMP-Mod tab.

Since the roll is created by rapidly alternating attacks, wouldn't the amp envelope be useless for this? I assume the envelope would be retriggering with each strike.

you are right, didn't think of that

so the mod page is the way to go then (joystick or aftertouch or any other AMS source).

Looking at other combi's running Karma I can see the balance controls moving. I'm trying to see how that is being done thinking that maybe the volume slider could also be moved. That might give me the build I need. This Karma is deep!

Geo

geoelectro wrote:Looking at other combi's running Karma I can see the balance controls moving. I'm trying to see how that is being done thinking that maybe the volume slider could also be moved. That might give me the build I need. This Karma is deep!

Geo

the panning is done because the KARMA GE sends different kind of values for Control Change 10. You can disable this in the KARMA filter section if you want. If you got the Karma Lab software then probably you could create a new GE pattern for Control Change 7 to control the value. I've never tried it but i guess it's possible.

But why would you do it in KARMA? the Mod method is much easier to apply and you will have much more control over the volume that way.

I wanted to automate it as I'm busy playing other things. I also thought maybe Karma could vary the velocity from a lower level to higher. That would actually be better as the sound would get louder and brighter.

I could resort to assigning aftertouch to the volume but I am trying to learn how to use Karma better.

Geo

geoelectro wrote:I wanted to automate it as I'm busy playing other things. I also thought maybe Karma could vary the velocity from a lower level to higher. That would actually be better as the sound would get louder and brighter.

I could resort to assigning aftertouch to the volume but I am trying to learn how to use Karma better.

technically KARMA can control the velocity, and maybe there is a KARMA GE that does this, but it's really hard to find it in the included KARMA GE library, the only thing you have available is the category and the name of the GE, so it takes a lot of experimenting with different kind of ge's if you can find one that does exactly what you want. And maybe it's not even in there.

If you have the Karma software then probably you could create a GE that does that, i have no idea how to do it, but i know that with each note you can set a velocity level, but since you want to add to the velocity level over repeated patterns i really don't know if that's possible.

Cool, thanks. I'll look into the after touch method for now. At least it does the pattern for me so I don't have to try to play it manually.

Thanks much!

Geo

QuiRobinez wrote:If you have the Karma software then probably you could create a GE that does that, i have no idea how to do it, but i know that with each note you can set a velocity level, but since you want to add to the velocity level over repeated patterns i really don't know if that's possible.

It would actually be quite easy to do in the KARMA Kronos Software. A KARMA GE has 3 assignable envelopes. The envelopes can control various CCs, or a few "specialized" destinations such as velocity and duration. You would assign a Velocity Envelope, draw a shape, and it will fade in the entire "riff" over a period of time that you can control.

Here's a screen shot I dug up of the Envelopes Editor (from KARMA MW, slightly older version):


The Envelopes Panel of the GE Editor, showing the 3 assignable envelopes in action. In this case, they are set to
loop continuously, producing CC #74 (Filter Frequency), CC #71 (LPF Resonance/HPF Cut), and Pitch Bend data.
The grayed-out fields (with black text) indicate that these parameters have been selected to be among the
32 GE RTParms available to be assigned to real-time controllers.

I'll take a look and see if I can come up with any internal GEs that you could use to do this...

thanks stephen

Here, try this:

GE 0127 Planet KARMA 2 - this has a Velocity Envelope assigned, and several GE RTP that allow you to control aspects of the envelope.

I'm going to discuss doing this in Program Mode with program GM 048 Timpani. So select that program, and turn on KARMA. Leave LATCH off for now.

Select GE 0127 "Planet KARMA 2" on the KARMA GE tab.

Play a note (such as G2) on the keyboard: pretty cosmic! But let's get back to tympani rolls.

First off, go to the KARMA GE Page, and set the following RT Controls as specified:

Slider 5: Note Range = 10 (limit to playing two notes alternating)
Slider 7: Repeat Repetitions = 0 (turn off repeats, which by default is on max)

Now, when you play a note on the keyboard, you should get a two note trill that fades in and then somewhat out, down to a certain low level. That's because, when loaded, the Velocity Envelope looks like this:



The red-circled parameters are the GE RTP that have been provided in this GE to vary the control of the envelope (and hence are grayed out in the KK software).

You probably don't want the tympani roll panning left to right, so go to the KARMA > MIDI Filter tab, and turn off "Transmit MIDI Filter: CC-A".

Go to the KARMA > GE RTP > Master A > 17-32 page. (If doing this in a combi, you would want the Module A tab.) You will see these four envelope-related parameters:

25 Env: Env On/Off [1] VE
26 Env: Env Start Level [1] VE
27 Env: Env Sustain Lvl [1] VE
28 Env: Env Time Scale [1] VE

The "[1] VE" at the end of each of these indicates that we are talking about Envelope #1, and the "Type" is VE Velocity.

If you want to control the amount of time the fade-in/fade-out takes, you vary #28 Env: Time Scale. A value of 1 would be extremely fast, while longer values will increase the amount of time by varying degrees. Try several different values and listen to the results.

As shown in this second image, if you don't want the roll to die back down (fade out), you raise GE RTP #27 Env: Sustain Level up to 99, and it will stay at the high level. You can also adjust the level that the envelope starts at (by default it is 26), but set #26 Env: Env Start Level to 0 to fade-in from nothing.



Finally, if you want the roll to die out nicely when you release the key, turn on the LATCH button. This enables the release portion of the envelope.

Have fun!

geoelectro wrote:I trying to use Karma to program a Timpani roll. I have Timpani assigned to two keys. I setup a nice roll that alternates between the two Timpani pitches. So far so good. (what fun)

I want to add a volume ramp so when I hit the keys it starts at one volume and as I hold it, it builds. I'm suspecting Karma can perhaps change the velocities over time? The roll lasts about 2 seconds. Any ideas?

Geo

Buy the Karma software it is ridiculously cheap and amazingly good just brilliant and a must if you have kk

Stephen,

That did it! Thanks for the direction. Now I know a little more about Karma! (enough to be dangerous)

I copied it to my Combi and all is well.

Thanks again,

Geo