Best MIDI connection? Old-school cables versus USB.

Ojiro · Post by **Ojiro** » Fri May 17, 2013 7:33 am

I have a MIDI question - basically, is it better to:

(a) connect my Korg Kronos x to my laptop via a MIDI interface (i.e., MIDI cables from my Kronos to my MOTU hybrid mk3, and then to my MacBook Pro Retina via a Firewire w/ thunderbolt adapter, which is my current setup), or

(b) connect the Kronos directly to the MBP via USB?

More details about my current setup (just in case):

MacBook Pro retina 2.8GHz, 768GB Flash Storage, 16GB memory, 27" thunderbolt screen
MOTU hybrid mk3
EW Complete Composers Collections (Symphonies, etc.) loaded into a 1TB Lacie Little Big Disk (SSD), connected via thunderbolt to my MBP
DP8
Reason 7
Adam a7x monitors
Korg Kronos X

Thank you in advance for your help!

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Fri May 17, 2013 11:04 am

I was recently told that the USB connection will a tuly be quicker the. Using the midi style of connection from the Kronos. I do not know if that is correct but the source has never lead me wrong.

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Fri May 17, 2013 11:26 am

The USB connection will be significantly faster. But that's really only important if you will be transfering very large amounts of data. If you will just be doing sequencing then MIDI should provide enough bandwidth so you can use whatever connection is the most convenient.

If you will be using the editor or anything else that can potentially transfer large amounts of data then USB would be the way to go.

Also, I do not think that midi data transmitted over USB into the Kronos is sent to MIDI Thru so you should take that into consideration if you will need that functionality.

Personally I prefer to use USB unless there is a specific reason not to.

pedro5 · Post by **pedro5** » Fri May 17, 2013 11:55 am

There may well be marginal differences between "old school" and usb midi,but probably not a problem as they operate under the same protocol(midi,that is).
However,if other users know that there is a real difference,I won't dispute the findings.
It can be a matter of preference or convenience which to use.
(The Kronos has one simple cable to connect as opposed to the usual pair of standard midi ones).

You can use both via a DAW…e.g. Cubase etc.

This will provide a choice and sometimes could help with data streaming during any heavy loading.

My current set up is
Kronos plus another keyboard go via a midi interface (AMT8), controlling themselves (midi local off)and another module,which works without having the computer on.

When Cubase is running,I have a choice between the AMT8 midi and / or the Kronos usb midi route for each instrument.

The added advantage that the Kronos usb link will also provide an alternative audio route as well.
My audio set up is
All instruments go via a mixer,then through a firewire interface for audio recording.

The Kronos usb can also be recorded directly,either as a typical instrument or a VST one.

I tend to record the Kronos via its usb link and all other instruments via the mixer / firewire route.

So,in answer to the question…..Use both types of midi connection.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes.

oldguy29 · Post by **oldguy29** » Fri May 17, 2013 1:01 pm

Usb is faster than 5 pin din cables. Another major factor is that usb is hot plugable where 5 pin din is not. Plugging a 5 pin din with power on can cause damage to hardware. I always connect these and then turn things on. So I vote for usb if there is a choice.

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Fri May 17, 2013 1:40 pm

oldguy29 wrote:Usb is faster than 5 pin din cables. Another major factor is that usb is hot plugable where 5 pin din is not. Plugging a 5 pin din with power on can cause damage to hardware. I always connect these and then turn things on. So I vote for usb if there is a choice.

I've never had a problem hot plugging MIDI cables but I suppose it's much better to be safe than sorry.

pedro5 · Post by **pedro5** » Fri May 17, 2013 6:22 pm

Yes,5 pin din plugs/sockets were not designed for hot plugging.....but I have also done so in the past and got away with it...

My previous post mentioned using an AMT8 for midi,I should have explained that using it with an imac,it is essentially via usb midi anyway,but has instruments connected to it via 5 pin din cables etc.
So it's a sort of hybrid,usb and "old school" midi,which works fine for me.
Previously the AMT8 was used with a pc with the usual comm port connection and all instruments were 5 pin din ones.

There has been several debates about usb midi versus the original type,transfer speed,jitter etc,but as said,it is a matter of preference and the end result differences can be
marginal.
Speed is not always important compared to being able to record accurate data.(I know we all want both....

).
However,if problems do occur,they can usually be overcome by alternative routing configuration.

Audio is another matter entirely,of course......usb versus firewire and others,but that debate is best left for a different time.

Best Wishes.

Cpilot · Post by **Cpilot** » Fri May 17, 2013 7:03 pm

There should be no electrical problems hot plugging standard midi. The output has a 220 ohm resistor in both lines, the input has a 220 ohm resistor in series and the voltage is only 5V. You might get problems with the devices at each end though due to protocol etc. As to USB versus midi, if you're doing sysex dumps from the Kronos they take forever with standard midi. USB is much faster.

Bryan

ChadOnKeys · Post by **ChadOnKeys** » Fri May 17, 2013 9:14 pm

I have the 32bit/64bit usb driver problem whilst using the editor as a Vsti, so as a work around I use the usb driver to connect the kronos with the editor and my saffire audio/midi interface to send the midi info.

That way I get the best of both worlds, so my advice would be to set both up.

Are you using your laptop and your MBP at the same time? If you are then the set up you are using sounds good to me.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:48 am

Use USB.

It's way faster and avoids some of the bottlenecks that are a result of the older 5-pin connector.

Want proof?

My KARMA Kronos software has the ability to upload and download complete banks of Combis and Programs via SysEx. A Bank of Combis takes, I don't remember, 15 seconds with the USB driver. With a MIDI Interface (Korg refers to this as "Legacy MIDI Connection") - it takes 8 or 9 MINUTES.

(When you send a Bank of programs or combis via SysEx, in software, for a Kronos, you actually send them one by one, and wait for the keyboard to say "OK, I got that one, send me the next one", and you loop through 128.)

Again: USB: 15 or 20 seconds. MIDI Interface: 8 or 9 MINUTES.

I don't use the Kronos Editor much, but given that it deals with lots of SysEx, I cannot imagine it would function very well (or at all) with a standard MIDI Connection.

Now, you might think this doesn't matter for normal MIDI notes and controller moves, but when you whack that joystick and generate hundreds of controller messages...?

Ojiro · Post by **Ojiro** » Sat May 18, 2013 7:48 am

Wow - thank you all for your help! I want to be able to use the Kronos editor, etc., and use Kronos as a plugin in DP8, so it sounds like USB might be the best way to go.

Thank you all again!

Stipes Vigilo · Post by **Stipes Vigilo** » Sat May 18, 2013 4:50 pm

While trying to run the editor for our M3 trhough USB, I kept getting a dialog box saying the MIDI connection was better. I changed it over to the FW and got the same message. Editor would often get errors with both USB and FW. Finally used MIDI and had no problems. I also had problems with the DAW's I was using recording audio through USB when I only needed MIDI, so it took two tracks instead of one and the audio was not the audio of the sound modules but just digital data noise.

Depending on your needs of course, but if you are only running a couple of modules, then USB should be good, as long as your DAW is handling the information in separate streams. But as I was running many modules (about twelve then, but I have them down to six now), then the more separation I added through a MIDI router and Audio IO, the better it got.

Try the simple first (USB) and see how it works for you. It may be all you need.

pedro5 · Post by **pedro5** » Mon May 20, 2013 6:03 pm

I forgot all about system exclusive data and using the Kronos editor......

Thanks for the reminder Stephen,a very important point!!

I still think there's a place for using the old midi cables though,as an addition to the main usb one,especially useful if other modules or instruments are in use.
(Forgive me repeating what the previous poster has just said....).

Best Wishes.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue May 21, 2013 1:46 am

StephenKay wrote:Again: USB: 15 or 20 seconds. MIDI Interface: 8 or 9 MINUTES.?

I understand USB being much faster for data dumps. But for music use (i.e. real-time playing, or sequencing), isn't MIDI 31.25 kBaud no matter what transport mechanism is used?

Also, one thing pointed out in a recent thread elsewhere is that MIDI connections are less likely to create a ground hum problem than USB.

SoundQuest · Post by **SoundQuest** » Tue May 21, 2013 3:28 am

No, the 31.25kB is for the MIDI hardware only. The USB transport of MIDI data is roughly 50 times faster than the theoretical maximum transfer speed of MIDI.

USB transfers all of the Kronos' data in about 5 minutes. To do this with traditional MIDI hardware requires about 4 1/2 hours.