Mastering Using the Kronos
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Mastering Using the Kronos
I am trying to exclusively use my Kronos from start to finish when creating my next cd. I may not be using the Compressor correctly for my end result wave files are not at optimal loudness levels. Does anyone know how to use the Kronos Compressor without having to use an outside system for mastering.
As someone who has played an engineer on TV - okay, just kidding - I can tell you that the effects on the Kronos are good, but not of mastering quality. I'll go a little further and say that mastering effects on a DAW require a fine ear to get truly professional results. You can do it, but the best thing to do as far as final production work is to contact a mastering engineer and see what it costs to have your music mastered there. They have not just high end gear that helps your music sound more polished and add a subtle expensiveness to the sound, but the experience to deliver the kind of finished product that sounds like it came from a major label.
To an extent, I should add, they can only polish something rough so much. But if you sound like a pro to start with, they can help you sound like a pro on a much bigger budget. And get your music to sound as loud or dynamic as you want, without sounding too quiet.
I have to say that after being exposed to expensive outboard compressors, that the comp in the Kronos makes me very timid because it isn't quite as smooth or forgiving, so I tend to use it mildly.
To an extent, I should add, they can only polish something rough so much. But if you sound like a pro to start with, they can help you sound like a pro on a much bigger budget. And get your music to sound as loud or dynamic as you want, without sounding too quiet.
I have to say that after being exposed to expensive outboard compressors, that the comp in the Kronos makes me very timid because it isn't quite as smooth or forgiving, so I tend to use it mildly.
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Re: Mastering Using the Kronos
I would also be very interested in learning this subject if ANYONE would be prepared to explain it... I produce my own tracks on the Kronos without any external goodies but I'm sure they could sound better with a little extra brain filler..matthewmb wrote:I am trying to exclusively use my Kronos from start to finish when creating my next cd. I may not be using the Compressor correctly for my end result wave files are not at optimal loudness levels. Does anyone know how to use the Kronos Compressor without having to use an outside system for mastering.
This subject interests me as well. I released a CD of my own material about 2 years ago and did everything in Cubase. I simply exported them to wav files and uploaded them to CD Baby for distribution. I also posted them to Reverb Nation as well. CD Baby took care of getting my CD put on Amazon, Itunes, Rhapsody, all the main players. I didn't even use any mastering effects. Not proud of the fact, but I did have it mixed the way I wanted it.
This thread has got me curious as to how much better it could/may sound if I had it properly mastered by an expert. So how do you find someone that does this and how much do they charge for such services? Are the best ones, as I suspect, only in LA, New York, and Nashville, or is it possible to find good ones elsewhere? Is this process something like I send them my "Master Tracks" and let them do the magic? Can you send them each track as opposed to a stereo mix? Just wonder how all that works now. I also suspect there are quite a few "Mastering Engineers" that now work from home with the tools that are now at their disposal. So it could be that geographics are no longer a factor.
This thread has got me curious as to how much better it could/may sound if I had it properly mastered by an expert. So how do you find someone that does this and how much do they charge for such services? Are the best ones, as I suspect, only in LA, New York, and Nashville, or is it possible to find good ones elsewhere? Is this process something like I send them my "Master Tracks" and let them do the magic? Can you send them each track as opposed to a stereo mix? Just wonder how all that works now. I also suspect there are quite a few "Mastering Engineers" that now work from home with the tools that are now at their disposal. So it could be that geographics are no longer a factor.
Korg Kronos 88 ::: Korg M3-73 ::: Yamaha MOXF6 ::: MacBook Pro w/ Cubase 7.5, Logic X & Mainstage + way too many VSTs
Line 6 Variax ::: Line 6 POD X3 Live! ::: Martin Acoustic/Electric ::: Mandolin
www.reverbnation.com/bradmize ::: www.cdbaby.com/bradmize
Line 6 Variax ::: Line 6 POD X3 Live! ::: Martin Acoustic/Electric ::: Mandolin
www.reverbnation.com/bradmize ::: www.cdbaby.com/bradmize
I have produced a cd without Mastering and one with. The cd I without mastering when played is quite a bit low on levels when compared to any other professional cd. For my second cd I had it mastered by a professional and it cost me about 600 bucks for 10 instrumental pieces. The difference was the levels were set to where they are "supposed to be" by using professional compression. All the song info was also coded in the cd, so when you played it, you could see the song info on your cd player or iPod. The engineer said I was very good at mixing my stuff and I could Master myself if I had the proper "tools" I had hoped the Kronos had the "tools" and it still may, I just have to find them and learn to use them. I am trying to avoid using a pc for when I do, I tend to get the pc edited sound. So back to my question...does the Kronos have the proper Compression Tool to set levels to the correct industry standard?
they dont do magic. Its more of a spit and polish. Most of the magic is done by the mix engineer that got everything as close as possible. If you had a master limiter plug in(its similar to a compressor) you could get some really close results without paying anyone. Personally i like the McDSP limitersmidinut wrote:This subject interests me as well. I released a CD of my own material about 2 years ago and did everything in Cubase. I simply exported them to wav files and uploaded them to CD Baby for distribution. I also posted them to Reverb Nation as well. CD Baby took care of getting my CD put on Amazon, Itunes, Rhapsody, all the main players. I didn't even use any mastering effects. Not proud of the fact, but I did have it mixed the way I wanted it.
This thread has got me curious as to how much better it could/may sound if I had it properly mastered by an expert. So how do you find someone that does this and how much do they charge for such services? Are the best ones, as I suspect, only in LA, New York, and Nashville, or is it possible to find good ones elsewhere? Is this process something like I send them my "Master Tracks" and let them do the magic? Can you send them each track as opposed to a stereo mix? Just wonder how all that works now. I also suspect there are quite a few "Mastering Engineers" that now work from home with the tools that are now at their disposal. So it could be that geographics are no longer a factor.
2xds-10, ds10+, m01
I am also very interested in this topic.
Since I am mainly involved in the production of audio books mastering seems to be not so vital but I think it's a very interesting subject anyway.
Maybe someone can suggest a good book or other kind of tutorial about mastering?
Thanks
cobi
Since I am mainly involved in the production of audio books mastering seems to be not so vital but I think it's a very interesting subject anyway.
Maybe someone can suggest a good book or other kind of tutorial about mastering?
Thanks
cobi
Hardware: Kronos 88 X, M50 73, Yamaha PSR 750, Roland Octacapture
Software: Mixcraft Pro Studio 7.5, Korg Legacy: M1, MonoPoly, MS-20, Polysix, Wavestation, OP-X Player
iPad: iElectribe, iM1
Software: Mixcraft Pro Studio 7.5, Korg Legacy: M1, MonoPoly, MS-20, Polysix, Wavestation, OP-X Player
iPad: iElectribe, iM1
this guide looks pretty accurate but dont let his obsession for the highest possible sample rate bother you.(its really only in the beginning)
edit: http://www.meldaproduction.com/audiotut ... tering.php
edit: http://www.meldaproduction.com/audiotut ... tering.php
2xds-10, ds10+, m01
I have a few quick tips for those who want to produce something now.
I usually don't do much compression on workstation tracks, since things like drums are already compressed, and I think this is true on the Kronos as well. So in the Kronos, try using a limiter set to clip level at -0.5 to -0.2db, or maybe -1db if you burn a CD and it clips transients. You'll know because digital clipping is nasty.
Mix on speakers. I've found that very few engineers can get their track levels and dynamics right on headphones. But do a check on your mix on expensive speakers if you have them, then boombox or PC speakers, then headphones. Also, compare your piece to something produced on a commercial CD.
Have fun.
I usually don't do much compression on workstation tracks, since things like drums are already compressed, and I think this is true on the Kronos as well. So in the Kronos, try using a limiter set to clip level at -0.5 to -0.2db, or maybe -1db if you burn a CD and it clips transients. You'll know because digital clipping is nasty.
Mix on speakers. I've found that very few engineers can get their track levels and dynamics right on headphones. But do a check on your mix on expensive speakers if you have them, then boombox or PC speakers, then headphones. Also, compare your piece to something produced on a commercial CD.
Have fun.
PRAY FOR THIS PLANET!!
u should put the multi compressor total effect 1st in the chain then stereo mastering limiter in total fx 2 there is a good loudness preset on the limiter called max mix 2. This set up is great for loudness but you can loose a lot of the dynamics as it will make everything the same level, for a good punchy mix set the attack and release to a minimal number but as a general rule when mastering a whole track you should have a mid attack time and a maximum release to prevent pumping unless that is the effect you desire.
Korg Kronos, Korg M3, Korg M1, Korg Triton LE, Kurzweil K2000 V3, Roland MC303, Roland JX305, Roland W30, Casio HT6000, Casio SK200, Akai MPK49
This is easy.
1st, your write a song, or pick any favorite.
2nd, perform & record the various tracks of the song
3rd, mix the song
4th, master the song
5th, try again, because the 4th step did not make up for the weakness in the 1st step.
It is possible to do all 5 steps on the Kronos.
It is possible to skip steps. but…
mastering won't make up for poor mixing, which won't make up for a poor performance or a poor recording, which won't make up for a sucky song.
If the song, and the performance of the song, are recorded well enough, then mixing could be flat and mastering just not needed.
1st, your write a song, or pick any favorite.
2nd, perform & record the various tracks of the song
3rd, mix the song
4th, master the song
5th, try again, because the 4th step did not make up for the weakness in the 1st step.
It is possible to do all 5 steps on the Kronos.
It is possible to skip steps. but…
mastering won't make up for poor mixing, which won't make up for a poor performance or a poor recording, which won't make up for a sucky song.
If the song, and the performance of the song, are recorded well enough, then mixing could be flat and mastering just not needed.
Kronos-6, Krome, M3, Radias, KingKorg, microKorg, KP-2, KP-3, KO-1, KO-1 PRO, Karma, microX, monotron, monotribe, PadCONTROL, Wavedrum Mini, Volca Keys, Beats, Bass, Sample, monotron Duo & Delay, microArranger, M1, Wavestation, Volca Sample, Keys, Beats & Bass, MS-20
JD-XA, JD-Xi, Aira (system 1, TB3, TR8, MX-1), Prophet 12, Mopho X4, Jupiter-80, FA-06, D50, CS1x, CZ101, DX200, AN200, analogFOUR, MachineDrum, MonoMachine, Motif XF6, Virus Snow, Nord Lead 2X, OP-1, MFOS, Tenori-on, QY100, QY70, meeblip se, miniBrute, microBrute, Bass Station 2
JD-XA, JD-Xi, Aira (system 1, TB3, TR8, MX-1), Prophet 12, Mopho X4, Jupiter-80, FA-06, D50, CS1x, CZ101, DX200, AN200, analogFOUR, MachineDrum, MonoMachine, Motif XF6, Virus Snow, Nord Lead 2X, OP-1, MFOS, Tenori-on, QY100, QY70, meeblip se, miniBrute, microBrute, Bass Station 2
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SanderXpander
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 7860
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:23 am
Ok sorry, but professional mastering is something entirely different from running your stuff through a Waves L2 or Izotope Ozone preset. A professional full time commercial mastering engineer will have a perfectly treated room and know from listening to your mix not only how to "crank up the volume" but also how to balance the frequency spectrum and stereo image perfectly, as well as take out any errant peaks and wobbles, and a thousand other things. The difference between a good mix plain and one properly mastered is definitely more than spit and polish.
There is no such thing as mastering professionally on the Kronos. There is not even such a thing as mastering your own mixes professionally. What you can do yourself is use a limiter or compressor to get a higher average (RMS) level on your track. If you have only the Kronos to use, perfect your mix the best way you can, then put the multiband limiter as TFX, set the output cap to about -0.2 dB and crank up the input until you start to hear distortion/degradation of your material. Pull it gently back until you can't hear any negative effects anymore. Bounce to disk.
Also, I hesitate to recommend this because of everything I wrote above, but if you have no money to spend on real mastering, there are some free software things you can try that will do about the same thing as I just explained on the Kronos, probably with better results. Since they're free, they may be worth a try. There's Limiter06 (L06) which is a free multiband limiter that's surprisingly good, but you'll need a DAW to run it in since it's a plugin. And there's AAMS, a full "automatic audio mastering suite" which can be useful as long as you realize you're not actually mastering your music but just applying presets derived from other tracks. Both of them can bring a little more balance and higher RMS volume to your tracks without too many negative effects. The nicest paid but affordable "bedroom mastering" (also preset based) software I know is probably Izotope Ozone 5. Don't bother with the Advanced version unless you know what you're doing. Check plugindiscounts.com or similar for a good price.
There is no such thing as mastering professionally on the Kronos. There is not even such a thing as mastering your own mixes professionally. What you can do yourself is use a limiter or compressor to get a higher average (RMS) level on your track. If you have only the Kronos to use, perfect your mix the best way you can, then put the multiband limiter as TFX, set the output cap to about -0.2 dB and crank up the input until you start to hear distortion/degradation of your material. Pull it gently back until you can't hear any negative effects anymore. Bounce to disk.
Also, I hesitate to recommend this because of everything I wrote above, but if you have no money to spend on real mastering, there are some free software things you can try that will do about the same thing as I just explained on the Kronos, probably with better results. Since they're free, they may be worth a try. There's Limiter06 (L06) which is a free multiband limiter that's surprisingly good, but you'll need a DAW to run it in since it's a plugin. And there's AAMS, a full "automatic audio mastering suite" which can be useful as long as you realize you're not actually mastering your music but just applying presets derived from other tracks. Both of them can bring a little more balance and higher RMS volume to your tracks without too many negative effects. The nicest paid but affordable "bedroom mastering" (also preset based) software I know is probably Izotope Ozone 5. Don't bother with the Advanced version unless you know what you're doing. Check plugindiscounts.com or similar for a good price.
A semi-professional mastering can be performed entirely on the Kronos.
But it will take so much time due to the clunky workflow and not-so-pratical user interface that will be so pricey (considering you are doing mastering engineer work that is hour paid) that is better let a professionist do it.
If you, like me, are only an amatorial musician and don't care about wasting time, you can definitely try to do the mastering yourself. You will be surprised to discover that you can do extreme high quality works if you learn how to do analyse properly your music.
But, definitely, a professional master done on professional and dedicated mastering tool will obviously sound better.
But it will take so much time due to the clunky workflow and not-so-pratical user interface that will be so pricey (considering you are doing mastering engineer work that is hour paid) that is better let a professionist do it.
If you, like me, are only an amatorial musician and don't care about wasting time, you can definitely try to do the mastering yourself. You will be surprised to discover that you can do extreme high quality works if you learn how to do analyse properly your music.
But, definitely, a professional master done on professional and dedicated mastering tool will obviously sound better.
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SanderXpander
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 7860
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:23 am
No doubt you can increase the overall sound quality of your mix by using tools like multiband compression or linear phase EQs. You may not even need real mastering for whatever you're doing. I'm just saying the type of thing discussed here is not what passes for "mastering" in the pro audio world. The term is used a lot (also in marketing) without proper understanding of what goes into it.
+1SanderXpander wrote:No doubt you can increase the overall sound quality of your mix by using tools like multiband compression or linear phase EQs. You may not even need real mastering for whatever you're doing. I'm just saying the type of thing discussed here is not what passes for "mastering" in the pro audio world. The term is used a lot (also in marketing) without proper understanding of what goes into it.