Using radias MIDI out to control an Akai sampler

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:05 pm

Hi, I love the sound of the filters on my Akai sampler. And I also love the modulation sequencer on the radias. Am wondering if I could set mod-seq 1 to cutoff of filter 1 on the radias, and cutoff 1 cc74 controlling cutoff cc#x of filter 1 on the Akai?

So far I have got some good squelchy basslines by using cutoff on the mod-sequencer - so some good results with the radias but would love to try the Akai filters now:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/obihtk

I'd see two ways of doing this:

(1) Get a mod seq. running and record parameter cc74 from the Radias OUT into cubase. Hit record on Cubase and as the mod sequencer steps, record the resultant sweeps as midi.

Then take this midi file and point it towards the Akai's Filter 1 cutoff and hopefully it will sweep like the radias' mod seq.

It tried this last night but have literally switched to Cubase in the last 2 weeks too so am having a bit of trouble. I can record note data from my keyboard into Cubase no problem but setting cubase to record cc74 is not giving me any joy at the moment.

The second seems more ambitious:

(2) Sample my bassline without modulation and put it in the sampler. Hook MIDI out of the Radias into Midi In of the Akai. Then set Radias out cc74 to control akai cc [filter #] and record the output of the sampler, all nice and modulated.

Any ideas to achieve this, any other ideas as to how to hook this up please?

Possible / impossible? Bit of a MIDI n00b I'm afraid.

Thanks!

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:58 pm

The mod sequencers don't transmit MIDI at all, partly because of the way they work. There are three mod sequencers for each voice, and can be triggered independently for each note played, or just to play with whole groups (timbres) of notes, or to just run continuously.

Whilst the last two options give the illusion of a single set of sequencers running, the structure of the program is not changed.

When you consider the different timbres too, not always on a different MIDI channel, it gets even more complicated. So I personally understand completely why Korg left this functionality out. Its a part of the synth structure so I don't expect MIDI out of it any more than I do out of the LFOs or EGs.

Anyway, your best bet would be to program a sequence using the arpeggiator or step sequencer, controlling cutoff with velocity.

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:12 pm

Thanks X-Trade. I think I kind of accepted I'd not be recording data from the mod seq directly, hence I am trying to record the resultant movement of the filter cutoff. But not possible you say :/

OK, so I will try your proposed solution, I'll copy the note sequence currently in cubase into the Radias's step sequencer and play around with the velocities.

What midi will I record into cubase to then trigger the filters on my Akai please?

Thanks, you're a gent. (I am going through the manual, promise!)

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:17 pm

I was suggesting that you send the note data and velocities to the Akai, programming the Akai to respond to Velocity with its cutoff, if at all possible.

As I tried to explain, the modulation sequencer doesn't really immitate a knob movement per-se, although you can program it with one. It is more like it is directly connected to the parameter of the filter DSP block rather than changing the knob value that is stored in the patch data (in fact, this would cause the 'original value' light to keep going off, so not an ideal solution for Korg).

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:30 pm

If I set cutoff to to velocity and then play with the velocities, won't I have some notes quieter than others?

Thanks for taking the time to explain, again, much appreciated :]

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:57 pm

X-Trade wrote:I was suggesting that you send the note data and velocities to the Akai, programming the Akai to respond to Velocity with its cutoff, if at all possible.

Do you mean bypassing the Radias altogether then?

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:42 pm

I really don't know how the Akai works.

In most synths, velocity doesn't have to control amplitude, it can be routed to other things as well or instead. I was suggesting for a completely radias-driven option, as it seems you wanted to control the cutoff from the Radias' sequencers.

Alternatively you could just draw your CC curve in Cubase.

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:37 pm

OK, I experimented hor hours yesterday and this morning after a quick play again at lunch I have to say, sorry boss, I have been trying to get what you mean but I am still confused by these three statements:

X-Trade wrote: Anyway, your best bet would be to program a sequence using the arpeggiator or step sequencer, controlling cutoff with velocity.

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I was suggesting that you send the note data and velocities to the Akai, programming the Akai to respond to Velocity with its cutoff, if at all possible.

----------------------

In most synths, velocity doesn't have to control amplitude, it can be routed to other things as well or instead. I was suggesting for a completely radias-driven option, as it seems you wanted to control the cutoff from the Radias' sequencers.

Right now, I understand that I am not going to get any nice midi patterns from the Mod Sequencers via Midi out on the the Radias to feed the Akai's filter cutoff - fair enough.

Are you saying the best thing to do in that case would be:

(1) to program my bassline into the arpeggiator and set the arpeggiator to play my bassline over say 16 steps. I'll mess about with the velocities and when I record the midi into cubase I should be able to record note information and velocity data via the Radias' midi out onto a midi track in Cubase.

(2) I'll take this midi data and point it to the midi in of the Akai.

(3) In the Akai, I'll make amplitude zero sensitive to velocity so the bassline plays at the same amplitude.

(4) In the Akai I will set it so it plays notes with high velocity to have the filter all the way open and low velocity to have the filter closed (or vice versa).

Is that what you mean? Damn being at work, I want to try this now and can't wait to get home. This is really hurting my little head!

Thanks again X-Trade :]

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:47 pm

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. I think

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:18 am

The minute I get some time off work, I am on it!

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:35 am

Hi - in the end I just put the data I would have put in the arp in the Radias into the piano roll of cubase, it amounted to the same thing as steps 1 and 2 in my answer above.

Thanks for explaining though, I reckon I would have been there for years trying to get midi out of the radias' envelopes.

The one thing that the Radias can do which I am really, really after is modulation of the envelope on the Akai to be honsest. I thought I would start with the cutoff and use the same logic on the envelopes.

On the Akai you can modulate how much effect (intensity I suppose) the whole envelope has on the keygroup... but what i love about the Radias is that I can automate A,D,S and R - not just set the envelope and have the patch responding to that more or less.

Thanks again mate!