Arpeggiators--Karma...?

Swampfox · Post by **Swampfox** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:42 am

I'm sure this topic has been discussed several times, so I apologize upfront, but I'd really appreciate some insight from you guys on which direction to go.

Hardware vs software...the main event discussion in the studio. SSL 4000 plugin vs the console, L2 outboard gear vs the L2 plugin, Analog saturation plugin vs Emperial Labs Fatso Jr....... more than 9 out of 10 times hardware trumps software. How do those statistics match up in the world of arpeggiators/karma...?

Don't get me wrong, I understand that the karma software is unbelievable, but how intricate is it/user friendly? Is it so intricate that one would have to dedicate programing time just for creating new GE's--because--creating new GE's would take so long it could interrupt the creative process if you tried creating a GE during a session?

I know that keyboards with internal arpeggiators are not only easily programable, but the new patterns are saved and made usable to a project quickly. The X50, Triton, Radias...all are easily programable, and unlike the Oasys they are capable of creating and saving new patterns internally within the board.

I want complete freedom to create patterns from scratch and save them...soooooo...which direction have some of you gone? Do you prefer the Karma software to create and import new GE's to the Oasys, or do you prefer the extra keyboard dedicated for the use of its programable arpeggiator?

Let me know your thoughts...thanks!

cello · Post by **cello** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:50 am

Great question! My answer to the same one was that I couldn't answer it...

So I got both. I have the O GE Editor and yes it is intricate. Whlst someone more experienced than me could do GE edits quicker - I find it takes me a lot more time than say with the Radias. So during a jam/rehearsal I'd say GE editing is not quick enough - but bear in mind I'm a noob and there may be shortcuts with the GE software I don't know about. ie take an existing GE that's close to what you want, change a few parameters, upload and play.

Bear in mind, that Karma is like an arpeggiator to the power of n! The two are very different animals - hence why yes, there are many more parameters with Karma and yes, it takes longer to create new ones and yes, to create new ones you need the extra parameters only available on the Karma software from Karmalabs.

Hope that helps a little.

Swampfox · Post by **Swampfox** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:04 am

That helps quite a bit! I've heard from several of my buddies that the Radias is very user friendly when it comes to the arpeggiator...do you agree?

I think you're right in saying I should treat them as what they are, two entirely different animals...with that said I'm definitely going to purchase the Karma software and prepare to get my hands dirty. I might as well begin learning how to use the software asap...

As far as an external arpeggiator goes...does anyone have a personal favorite---why?

Also, are there any Karma Software Editor pro's out there that feel that the learning curve is worth the results?

cello · Post by **cello** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:51 am

The Radias arp is limited to the usual options these days - 1 octave, 2 octave, down and up and random.

But the Sequencer is fun, fun, fun! And can be programmed quickly to do non-standard 'arp' sequences, if you get what I mean!

The Karma software is a great investment to get the best out of what it offers - I have only scratched the surface to be honest, and you will be amazed at how many parameters there are but get your head round all that, then the options are limitless. Charlie on these forums uses the O software a lot so hopefully he'll chime in as am sure he will be able to help more than I can.

Never used an external arp before so can't help with that one; sorry!

Rocness · Post by **Rocness** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:39 pm

I just could not get into karma software . As great and cool looking as it is ,
it's just way to complex when trying to make music. If you have the time to sit with it you can come up with some really cool things. I think the best thing is to try and understand karma GE's and control it from the hardware. You can almost make anything you want but you have to put the karma hours in to feel how it works , then the real power begins to show. I just love it. Karma is truly amazing.

Peace

Swampfox · Post by **Swampfox** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:10 am

How versatile is the Triton Extreme arpeggiator? I'm looking to get another keyboard to handle certain parts of my projects. I'd love to jump right into to Karma Software and create some new GE's immediately but unfortunately that's going to take some patience...

Any opinion on the TEX?

Sina172 · Post by **Sina172** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:27 am

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:53 am

I think it is important to remember that you don't need the KARMA software to be musically creative.

If you're prepared to be a little less note-specific about what you get out of it, then the factory GEs are still more than adequate. I only have a Karma Workstation, no OASYS, and it has far less GEs, but I've got some pretty good stuff out of it.
It can be very inspirational and a great writing aid, not in the negative sense. I think it is particularly useful if you find yourself in a commercial or deadline position where you need to churn out a certain amount of material - it is a compositional tool.
It is also useful (particularly for electronic music) in live performance, there is nothing like tweaking knobs like a 'DJ' and actually altering the musical content of the music rather than just the sound.

Pick a GE that roughly falls into the category of instrument, playing style, or in some cases 'genre' that you want, and then tweak the limited number of parameters in hardware for that GE. It can be surprising, but you can actually get quite a lot of variation from the original initial settings of the GE.

If you know exactly which notes you want and in what arrangement, that is when the software or a more precisely programable arpeggiator or step sequencer comes into play. And remember on Korg's workstations in sequencer you also have a very powerful feature called 'RPPR' for that!

Personally I have to say that I'd take the four KARMA modules over the 'dual arps' any day. The arps themselves are good, but it would be nice to see three or four of them at least, and they lack the features like 'scenes' and that.

Mike Conway · Post by **Mike Conway** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:18 am

Have you considered a Motif XF (or other Yamaha)? They have multiple arps and from what I understand, they are easy to program - as in copying from your song measures to arp pattern. I don't have a Motif, but would like to work with arps and patterns in this way.