Choices!!!!!

dtscape · Post by **dtscape** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:32 am

Hi Everyone,
I've been a big fan of KORG for the past 15 or so years. My live setup, old as it is, is mainly Korg (01/wfd(61), Triton Classic(61) and Roland D50). For smaller gigs I just use the Korgs.

I need some advice. Due to recent, significant, changes in my life I have decided to take a year or 2 out of gigging. I currently carry the pa(5000w) and my 3 keyboards to pretty much every gig so.... Whilst I'm off I intend to sell the pa and a few of my keyboards (I have a few others at home) so when I return to the music scene I need a new keyboard and a combo amp... this is where the advise is needed.

Obviously I am looking at workstations to cover the broadest spectrum. My limit would be £2600 in total. This is what I've narrowed my choice down too

KORG M3 73
ROLAND G7
Mac with Master Keyboard
Open Labs Neko, or similar(DBeam + Master Keyboard etc)

Due to my use of Korgs it is quite likely I'll go for that but... I need to know how much of an improvement it is over the Triton Classic. I know it has Karma and Touch screen (with functional use) etc. But are the sounds that different. I've seen the videos on youtube and, too me, it doesn't seem that much better!!! (I'm probably wrong)
In a way I am looking for something different... I need good piano, organs, strings and lead synth stuff thats nice and big!!!!

Hope you can help!!!!

Neko · Post by **Neko** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:52 am

M3 Piano's have to be customized, as the lead sounds, to sound great.

But Strings an Organs are just awesome.

dtscape · Post by **dtscape** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:59 am

I am struggling to decide between the Roland G7 or Korg M3. The Korg has 73 keys where as the Roland has 76. The sample memory on the Roland is huge compared to the Korgs... and when you use the xpanded version you loose even more memory. Roland also has the ability to go from one sound to the next without clipping... which is a great idea for live playing.
Not that I'm against the Korg as I know they sound great.... I've used them for years!!!!!! But I'm wondering if it's time for a change!!

In all honesty how do the sounds of these keyboards compare?
Piano
Organ
Strings
Lead synths

I really need to play on these, to be fare, but I don't know anywhere local to listen to them(KENT).

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:23 am

Forget the G7. Think about Kurzweil PC3+Korg M3 (rack only) combo. To me G7 sounds awfully sterile.

dtscape · Post by **dtscape** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:14 am

Nice idea.. unfortunately it would leave me no money for a combo amp!!!
I think its between the Roland and Korg....
I need something thats gonna last as I won't be back on the scene for a few years. I must confess to not being a fan of how the M3 looks. To me it looks very plastic!!!! The limited sample memory is also worrying me.... as I intend on using big samples.

It's not an easy decision for me!!!

I've recently discovered Jem Godfrey... He uses a Roland G and I am very impressed with the sounds he gets. Particularly when he demonstrates his programming on his geek video(see "Planet Frost" on youtube to see what I mean).I've been a fan of Jordan Ruddess for some years (along with Derek Sherinian, Matt Guilory amongst others) that I know use Korg gear. However I have to say Jordans keyboard sounds, in several cases, are not too clever!!! But not all... I like the lead synth he used on Ovarium(which I believe was an M3). Its all very personal opinion though...
I need to get my hands on both these keyboards but I fear that I will make a brash decision !!!!

BillW · Post by **BillW** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:52 pm

I've bought and sold 2 M3s and stuck with the G7. It took the M3 too long to switch between sounds and I use a lot of complicated splits and layers. I was also concerned about the durability of the buttons and pads.

There isn't a single sound I haven't been able to get out of the Fantom and have supplemented the base sound ROM with about 150MB of my own samples (mostly from software synths). In addition to having a generic rotary (Leslie) algorithm, the G7 also has the VK-7 rotary in it. I'm not fond of the organ samples inside the G7, but I was able to sample stuff from my CX3 and VK-8M that sounds fantastic through the G7's effects. The G7 is my only gigging board and I cover a ton of ground with it (from early Genesis to 70s/80s rock & pop).

dtscape · Post by **dtscape** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:12 pm

Early GENESIS hey!!!! My kinda stuff..... You definately need a good organ sound for that. Prog is what I'm after doing when I return to gigging... ala Jem Godfrey style!!!!!

I'm definately leaning towards the Fantom (much to people on here's dissaproval I'm sure!!!!). A friend of mine owns one but I haven't seen him for some time... I need to try it out... SOON!!!!!!

BillW · Post by **BillW** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:39 pm

dtscape wrote:Early GENESIS hey!!!! My kinda stuff..... You definately need a good organ sound for that. Prog is what I'm after doing when I return to gigging... ala Jem Godfrey style!!!!!

I'm definately leaning towards the Fantom (much to people on here's dissaproval I'm sure!!!!). A friend of mine owns one but I haven't seen him for some time... I need to try it out... SOON!!!!!!

I was in a band that covered quite a bit of early Genesis (Firth of Fifth, Cinema Show, Los Endos, In That Quiet Earth, Squonk, Afterglow, Dance on a Volcano, etc). With the exception of Dance on a Volcano, I was able to do everything with the G7. I had the Mellotron and 12-string for Dance coming out of my Kurzweil PC3 (which I had just acquired and was trying to find a use for).

Yes, Tony Banks used a lot of organ, but it should be an easy sound to replicate. After he stopped touring with his Hammond, he was using a Prophet-10 for organ sounds. My point is that you don't need a dedicated Hammond clone to play Genesis as Tony didn't rely on the features that make the Hammond sound unique anyway.

Synthoid · Post by **Synthoid** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:46 pm

dtscape wrote:I'm definately leaning towards the Fantom (much to people on here's dissaproval I'm sure!!!!). A friend of mine owns one but I haven't seen him for some time... I need to try it out...

Spend some time with one--make sure it works for you. Most people (myself included) were unimpressed the first time they played the Fantom G. It's a different animal than the M3. I do like its huge screen (wish it was a touch screen)

There are similar waveforms in the Triton and M3, but the M3 has larger sample RAM, and two software upgrades since its introduction, including some fantastic new sample sets as well. What really sold me on the M3 was KARMA. With the type of music I play, standard arpeggiators don't come close.

dtscape · Post by **dtscape** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:55 pm

Valid point on Tony Banks there........ His sound is quite easy to replicate on most synths(I used to on my Juno 6).

I'm not a big organ player, at the moment, but I need to make sure the keyboard I get is able to cover a wide range. This is where sampling can be a major influence on my decision as I have access to a lot of soft synths and may need to sample them to achieve my goal!!!! That is ,of course, if I'm anable to recreate them on the keyboard in the first place.

As I said, I am hoping to go out and play more progressive stuff than I have to date. I won't be so worried about money for gigs but more to enjoy what I'm playing.... I will also need to think about what I'm playing rather than go through the motions!!!
I've lost my way over the years and I'm hoping to return with a fresh head!!!!
Hence the new keyboard!!!!!

kimu · Post by **kimu** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:13 pm

i have to say that i would go with M3 than with Fantom (what i effectively do after trying both on music store...) but i guess is mainly a fact of personal taste...
have a try both with M3 and Fantom and buy the one you are more confortable with.
with respect to Trinity/Triton, M3 has better piano and organ sounds, string and lead as usual in korg WS are great.

anyway be aware that both of them are quite heavy to carry to gig (maybe as well as your Triton)

dtscape · Post by **dtscape** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:43 pm

OK... To the point now.

Is there anything a Korg M3 can do that a Fantom G can't(other than the Karma functions that is)?

kimu · Post by **kimu** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:50 pm

i would say Karma, Touchscreen for X/Y pad/Kaoss EFX, Radias EBX for real VA

Randelph · Post by **Randelph** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:36 pm

I have decided to take a year or 2 out of gigging. I currently carry the pa(5000w) and my 3 keyboards to pretty much every gig so.... when I return to the music scene I need a new keyboard and a combo amp... this is where the advise is needed.

huh? the way you worded it it sounds like you need a new keyboard in a year or two. technology changes pretty fast-

you must be pretty dedicated to schlepp so much equipment around!

i've heard repeatedly the Fantom G had substandard patches, but tweaking brings them up to speed. you might ask on the Fantom forum what it's like to do what you want to do- I have the XS and M3 and have been amazed at how easy some things are to do and how ridiculously difficult other things are to do. knowing the Korg way is potentially a big leg up.

the price difference may be significant as well- I got a new (open box) M3 61 for $1475, and could have gotten a M3 73 for about $1800.

Also, even though the Fantom has more keys, they go down to E, whereas the Korg goes down to C, which in my book is much more useful- I don't need more keys on the top octave, I always need that lower octave.

The other thing to consider is the kind of support you're likely to get. While I prefer the sound and overall experience of the M3 to the XS, the online community here seems almost missing in action- compared to the XS forum, there's very little activity here, no regular help from company gurus and very few expert users that help out on a regular basis. You're much more on your own, it feels like there's not as many users with the M3. Though the M3 does have a great WIKI tutorial section and Karma labs have fee based tutorials as well that many are saying are good.

Good luck and don't believe the hype! I bought into the hype around the XS as being "the best" and was frustrated and dissapointed. I liked the sounds overall (didn't have another top keyboard to compare to, but was generally happy with that); but found the user experience of trying to organize my sounds and samples very frustrating; and in the end there were so many technical hassles with making the board my own (just the basics of having my sounds organized, the samples i wanted in place, etc.) that i got turned off to the XS.

And I'm glad I did- I haven't dove in as deep with the M3, but the user experience for me is much better: the sounds are punchy in a way that inspires my playing, I love the drum track that's associated with each patch, the quality of the drums and their patterns are great, and many of the sounds are just knockouts. And, the board is my own- I can rename and tweak most of the patches, even presets, set my own categories, which is a totally different experience than having to deal with a set in stone set of preset patches.

Yeah, the 384MB limit on sample size is dissapointing, and why there's not another controller pedal input is beyond me.

All in all, a very personal choice!

Randelph

Synthoid · Post by **Synthoid** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:52 pm

Randelph wrote: I bought into the hype around the XS as being "the best" and was frustrated and dissapointed. I liked the sounds overall (didn't have another top keyboard to compare to, but was generally happy with that); but found the user experience of trying to organize my sounds and samples very frustrating; and in the end there were so many technical hassles with making the board my own (just the basics of having my sounds organized, the samples i wanted in place, etc.) that i got turned off to the XS.

The Motif XS does indeed offer great sounds, plus being able to use 4 arpeggios at once is great, although that doesn't compete with KARMA and drum tracks on the M3. Although the Motif XS comes with lots of great programs, you only have 3 banks of 128 for user voices--you can't overwrite any of the others. (Most illogical). All of Korg's programs and combinations can be overwritten.

And don't get me started with Yamaha's file system, lack of 10-key pad, and the fact that the Motif ships with no internal RAM for sampling.