Karma arps suck

[mathieumaes]

Initializing the entire module isn't always an option, because you may want to start from an existing program and finetune it. But what appears to be a small change, probably means some parameter (or a combination of several parameters) very well hidden in a huge pile of unself-explanatory labeled parameters.

Again, I really don't mind the complexity of software, but I think there are many UI design flaws. Not just the KARMA module, but in many different parts of the Kronos as well.

1. I find it pretty annoying that the KARMA screens are on different areas.
Why not put the "Karma GE" tab, currently located in"Play", in the dedicated KARMA tab ?

2. Many labels are very short, and not self-explanatory (ie. what's a RTC ?)

3. If you look at the Karma GE screen:
At the bottom you have this flashy red bar with 8 numbered columns (1-8). Underneath you have a button, a label (pink background), another label this time in grey, a fader, another label (pink background) and to finish... yes: another label (grey background)

The flashy red numbers make it look like channel strips on a mixer, but after a while I found out that the 8 On/Off buttons doesn't have anything to do with the faders. They're just 8 different parameters... A silly design mistake!

I looked at a demo video presenting Karma for Motif, which appears to be a PC editor. Most screens that I saw in the video appear to be much clearer. Better described labels, more structured layout, etc ...

To give a different example: I managed to get a repeating chord working, but it stops after releasing the notes and the sustain pedal is pressed. The base notes remain (like you would expect) but the arp stops ... How do I make it listen to the sustain pedal ?

I eventually posted a topic a while ago:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... ma+sustain

No answers, which probably means: nobody knows or it can be done. Or maybe it's too complicated to explain in a forum ?

Sure, you can blame me for not reading the manuals or watching tutorials. Actually I do, but my Kronos is usually 60 km away from my PC, so I don't have access to them when I'm at the Kronos. This has never posed a real problem, KARMA is the only thing I can't figure out myself when I'm at the Kronos...

[mathieumaes]

Now if you want to solve this without the initialize feature then you need to know a little about the KARMA module. You can change this by pressing the KARMA tab and then the CONTROL Subtab. There you see a section called FORCE RANGE, my guess is that it's now on the setting C3 - B3.

Set that setting to off and you will have the full range again.

Actually, I did initialize the Karma module before setting this up. Can the force range setting be set by default in the program that I chose ?

[QuiRobinez]

To give a different example: I managed to get a repeating chord working, but it stops after releasing the notes and the sustain pedal is pressed. The base notes remain (like you would expect) but the arp stops ... How do I make it listen to the sustain pedal ?

I eventually posted a topic a while ago:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... ma+sustain

No answers, which probably means: nobody knows or it can be done. Or maybe it's too complicated to explain in a forum ?

i did a quick look, i never saw this thread and probably others that know how to program KARMA didn't see this one neither. I've answered your question in that thread.

It's the note latch setting on the KARMA- Trigger sub page

Sure, you can blame me for not reading the manuals or watching tutorials. Actually I do, but my Kronos is usually 60 km away from my PC, so I don't have access to them when I'm at the Kronos. This has never posed a real problem, KARMA is the only thing I can't figure out myself when I'm at the Kronos...

Don't get me wrong, i never blame anyone here on this forums. Personally i think everyone should do whatever pleases him or her. I just try to explain that people are missing a lot of fun when they don't read or watch tutorials about how things are done. Sure tutorials are only on a basic level but it gives some feeling about how the system is setup.

But if someone really doesn't want to read manuals or watch tutorials then really that's fine by me. I certainly don't blame anyone for that.


The missing manual isn't really an issue. The manual is stored on the Kronos itself. Just press the option on the touchscreen you want to be explained and press the help button on the Kronos. Then the corresponding page of the manual is displayed on the touchscreen. Very handy when you are on the road and don't have access to a pc or ipad pdf reader.

[QuiRobinez]

Now if you want to solve this without the initialize feature then you need to know a little about the KARMA module. You can change this by pressing the KARMA tab and then the CONTROL Subtab. There you see a section called FORCE RANGE, my guess is that it's now on the setting C3 - B3.

Set that setting to off and you will have the full range again.

Actually, I did initialize the Karma module before setting this up. Can the force range setting be set by default in the program that I chose ?

Not that i know off. I've checked the KARMA GE 016 which you were talking about in the other thread, and i had no problem whatsoever. It worked flawlessly without any modifications. (I only selected the KARMA GE in an init patch)

So, in this case: Which program did you try to modify with which KARMA GE number? (then i could take a look for you what's the cause of this).

[Hexfix93]

The biggest reason it sucks is, I wanted just a plain up arp for when I edit a sound, instead i get this panning mess of an arp. with no easy self explanatory way to turn off the panning. ITS A JOKE!

Just to do something so simple as a simple standard arp that doesn't pan, I had to get on the internet and search many sites over and over to find out how to turn the stupid PANNING OFF in karma. This is a joke.

No instrument should be this difficult to use out of the box. What a joke.

[Sparker]

I think it just appears complicated, when it isn't really.

I used to have a MS2000, which had a really simple ARP. It had six patterns; Up, Down, Alt1 (Up-Down), Alt 2 (Up-Down), Random & Trigger; An octave range selection, A gate, Tempo, ARP resolution & Swing (the last two edited via the screen input)

Kronos's GE's 22-26 (Basic arp Atl1 ... Basic Arp Up) are the same as these patterns. They all use the CL1 - Comp/Lead 1 RTC Control Template.

Look at the RTC refence chart for the CL1 template here:
http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/karma2:rtc ... ll-layouts

The first five sliders that affect 'Note Generation' (The yellow ones) are the only ones needed to produce simple MS2000 type ARPs. (This simplifies thinking about the control surface by comparing it to that on an MS2000 - but with the swing and resolution added to the surface control.

so you choose:
ARP pattern (menu GE (22-26))
The Swing with Slider 1
ARP Resolution with Slider 2
Gate/Duration with Slider 3
Note range with Slider 5 (1 -4 Octaves)
Tempo as set or with the Tempo knob

Additionally there's a 'Sensitivity/Velocity Gate' with Slider 4 which will cause lower velocity notes to drop out as the slider is lowered.

These 5 controllers (actually 4) do exactly what the MS2000 ARP does (without having to dive into editing the MS2000 via the LED screen). The only difference is that they aren't labled as such and have sliders instead of buttons and knobs.

Plus the first four buttons add some features:

Button 1 will force the ARP to play monophonically
Button 2 will add a more complex scale based varient
Button 3 will invert the ARP pattern
Button 4 will save you having to change to the 'GE25 Basic Arp Random'

(I didn't notice if the panning CC was on for these GE's as I'd deactivated the midi filter earlier)

Now this seems pretty simple to me, once I look at the controls as being the same as on the much simpler MS2000, with the only difference being that the sliders aren't labled.

I tried it earlier and it took me less than 5 minutes (including boot up time) to repeat all the basic MS2000 patterns on the Kronos.

(I know I didn't mention Trigger mode - but I'm sure that's well covered in the Gated GE category).

(PS. This doesn't hold true for the Master Layer in a Combi as that controls individual modules and uses a different RTC Template)

[StephenKay]

The biggest reason it sucks is, I wanted just a plain up arp for when I edit a sound, instead i get this panning mess of an arp. with no easy self explanatory way to turn off the panning. ITS A JOKE!

Just to do something so simple as a simple standard arp that doesn't pan, I had to get on the internet and search many sites over and over to find out how to turn the stupid PANNING OFF in karma. This is a joke.

No instrument should be this difficult to use out of the box. What a joke.

We get that you don't like the panning. Now that you know how to turn that off, you should be set. Other than that, the first few GEs go up and down, down and up, etc.

[StephenKay]

I think it just appears complicated, when it isn't really.

I used to have a MS2000, which had a really simple ARP. It had six patterns; Up, Down, Alt1 (Up-Down), Alt 2 (Up-Down), Random & Trigger; An octave range selection, A gate, Tempo, ARP resolution & Swing (the last two edited via the screen input)

Kronos's GE's 22-26 (Basic arp Atl1 ... Basic Arp Up) are the same as these patterns. They all use the CL1 - Comp/Lead 1 RTC Control Template.

Look at the RTC refence chart for the CL1 template here:
http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/karma2:rtc ... ll-layouts

The first five sliders that affect 'Note Generation' (The yellow ones) are the only ones needed to produce simple MS2000 type ARPs. (This simplifies thinking about the control surface by comparing it to that on an MS2000 - but with the swing and resolution added to the surface control.

so you choose:
ARP pattern (menu GE (22-26))
The Swing with Slider 1
ARP Resolution with Slider 2
Gate/Duration with Slider 3
Note range with Slider 5 (1 -4 Octaves)
Tempo as set or with the Tempo knob

Additionally there's a 'Sensitivity/Velocity Gate' with Slider 4 which will cause lower velocity notes to drop out as the slider is lowered.

These 5 controllers (actually 4) do exactly what the MS2000 ARP does (without having to dive into editing the MS2000 via the LED screen).

Now this seems pretty simple to me, once I look at the controls as being the same as on the much simpler MS2000, with the only difference being that the sliders aren't labled.

By jove, I think he's got it! Refreshing...

By the way, the Sliders *are* labeled if you switch to the KARMA GE page.

[Sparker]

Stephen Kay wrote:

By the way, the Sliders *are* labeled if you switch to the KARMA GE page.

Indeed they are Stephen - I was course referring to the printing on the control surface

However, something I didn't mention was that the KARMA control values can be viewed on the Main KARMA GE tab - towards the top of the screen in the 'values' section; (this is particularly useful when you want to know what the current value of the slider is, (the KARMA value, not the slider Midi value).

(Note; the default values will change when you open a new GE - see the copious amount about switching/importing GEs in other forum threads)

So for Slider 5 (Note Range) KARMA value 100 = 1 Octave, 200 = 2 Octave, etc (up to 400).
For Slider 1 there's the neat 101/102 (the top 2 swing values) that swings the pattern by +/-200%

And finally there's the extremely useful 'scene' buttons which mean that you can set up to 8 different variations on the current GE which allows you to switch to any desired variation by pressing a single button, instead of trying to fiddle about with the individual sliders on those settings where small movements can make noticable changes. (i.e. Slider 2)