PETITION KORG POLL for KARMA 3 for KRONOS

[SanderXpander]

Maybe we're having a miscommunication, Sharp, but I don't see why you would need sounds as long as the mappings work per keyboard. If you have a midi box that is sending notes and amp and filter data and call the arp/GE preset "stabby synth" or something, it should work out of the box on most short attack/decay synth sounds in that board. How is that different from copying a certain GE module to another sound in the Kronos, or substituting a different bass sound inside a Karmified combi?

I realize that you won't be able to get as deep into the engine if you'd have to stick to more general automation to suit a wide variety of sounds. But you could always sell a dedicated high quality soundset per board separately. I still think Karma could be applied more generally in a still very powerful and unique way.

[QuiRobinez]

So, KARMA with no sound engine of it's own = Good.
But KARMA with it's own sound engine is just another Synth?

I don't get it.

well, in my opinion it's all about product positioning, Adding a sound engine to a KARMA hardware box wouldn't make it that much different to the Korg M3 or Kronos for instance. The focus would again be on the Synth sounds instead on the strong product KARMA itself is.

That's why i said that a KARMA box without a synth engine would make it unique, that time it's product focus would be what it could do with creatng the algorithmic patterns for any synth that you own.

but there isn't a solution like a hardware box that you connect to your DAW and scans your chord input and can generate all kind of algorythmic inspirational patterns the way KARMA does which far succeed the current arpeggiator solutions.

So, no optimised factory presets you can use straight out of the box on day one. Expect the end user to create their own ?

I think that's over the heads of most people. KARMA is deep and most people on this forum are only tweaker.

in my opinion the KARMA hardware box should be packed with customised presets, we already have 1000's of them (GE's). The only thing that should be done is make them more accessible. So only give access to the RTC parameters and add hardware buttons for the midi filter checkboxes like Pitchbend and CC on / off for instance.
Then add 100's of presets for some of the famous VST / AU synths to get people started and you have a hardware box that has no competition at all at this moment if you also manage to keep the price acceptable for those kind of hardware.

And how great would it be for the current Computer based musicians to add a hardware box, select a pattern for their VST or hardware synth and press a few buttons and all kind of usable basslines, melody lines, drumpatterns, etc... will come out for their productions and give them the inspiration to use or modify them in their productions.

I do this a lot in my setup with the M3 and Kronos. Whenever i got stuck in a song i select a KARMA GE,route it to a vst or hardware synth and within minutes i have new patterns in my track with lots of new inspiration. It's really cool to hear KARMA patterns on a virus TI or NI Massive or doing it's work on an omnisphere sound.

So that's why i'm a strong believer of focussing on the KARMA product itself instead of having a synth where KARMA is part of the package.

[Sharp]

Got it. I understand.
Me personally as an end user, I would love that for sure.

Bearing in mind how deep KARMA is, I think most people would give up on it though if it came packaged like that. I feel most would see it on par with being asked to jump into the deep end of the pool without even knowing how to sim.

Regards
Sharp.

[Bertotti]

I am not the normal consumer. I love a difficult beast to learn the more complicated the better but the truth is Karma is insanely difficult to get going in beyond presets. I had to watch Qui's vid over and over then start playing with individual setting to see how the affected different things only to find out now with the karma for Kronos softwRe that I didn't even get 1% into the details! Deep is a huge understatement. A quick easy to get going on beginners mode would've a must or to any people would pass on it. I think so many more would be interested as well knowing that the deep control was in there waiting for them as they progressed, if they choose.

[apex]

And in my opinion it would help enormously if the developer or someone paid by him would actually teach it beyond the surface. As great a potential as it is... It's very very difficult to realize that potential because its just so hard to use and understand....

But I argued this enough last month.... No need to do it again. He's not gonna listen and will just take offense to what people say.

He doesn't have time to teach the software because he's too busy making the software better (more difficult) lol.

Nothing personal....mr. Kay.... Just business.

[ed_f]

And in my opinion it would help enormously if the developer or someone paid by him would actually teach it beyond the surface. As great a potential as it is... It's very very difficult to realize that potential because its just so hard to use and understand....

But I argued this enough last month.... No need to do it again. He's not gonna listen and will just take offense to what people say.

He doesn't have time to teach the software because he's too busy making the software better (more difficult) lol.

Nothing personal....mr. Kay.... Just business.

Curious... How much would you pay for that kind of training?

[apex]

And in my opinion it would help enormously if the developer or someone paid by him would actually teach it beyond the surface. As great a potential as it is... It's very very difficult to realize that potential because its just so hard to use and understand....

But I argued this enough last month.... No need to do it again. He's not gonna listen and will just take offense to what people say.

He doesn't have time to teach the software because he's too busy making the software better (more difficult) lol.

Nothing personal....mr. Kay.... Just business.

Curious... How much would you pay for that kind of training?

You mean if I was the developer...how much would I pay someone to train people to use my software?

[StephenKay]

And in my opinion it would help enormously if the developer or someone paid by him would actually teach it beyond the surface. As great a potential as it is... It's very very difficult to realize that potential because its just so hard to use and understand....

But I argued this enough last month.... No need to do it again. He's not gonna listen and will just take offense to what people say.

He doesn't have time to teach the software because he's too busy making the software better (more difficult) lol.

I think the people that were waiting nearly two years for the software to be able to run on the current Mac OS X versions would have preferred I work on that, rather than videos showing them how to use it on old Macs that they couldn't even run any more. Strangely, I sold a bunch more copies of KARMA Kronos recently, having released that important Mac OS X update back in July - even without videos.

I totally agree more videos and instructional materials from myself would help sell more copies, but it's always a trade-off, with having to spend time on keeping the software functional on the new OS's that Apple and MS release. I don't know why you think I am not listening and take offense at your suggestions - I don't - but I'm also not going to suddenly drop everything and make a bunch of videos until the software is all caught up. I'm finally days away from releasing a new version of KARMA Motif (3.1) that finally adds support for Mac OS X 10.7, 10.8 and 10.9, not to mention adds support for the Yamaha MOXF, MOX, and Motif-Rack XS. This stuff takes enormous amounts of time and there just hasn't been any time to make the instructional videos that I agree would be nice to have. So, if I lose some sales to a lack of glitzy instructional videos, I gain them back by opening up the software to new instruments and people with newer computers...

The rest of this thread/discussion has been very interesting to me, and I'd like to comment on it at some point - I've just been too busy with the new release and the upcoming NAMM. Thanks for the interest!

[apex]

And in my opinion it would help enormously if the developer or someone paid by him would actually teach it beyond the surface. As great a potential as it is... It's very very difficult to realize that potential because its just so hard to use and understand....

But I argued this enough last month.... No need to do it again. He's not gonna listen and will just take offense to what people say.

He doesn't have time to teach the software because he's too busy making the software better (more difficult) lol.

I think the people that were waiting nearly two years for the software to be able to run on the current Mac OS X versions would have preferred I work on that, rather than videos showing them how to use it on old Macs that they couldn't even run any more. Strangely, I sold a bunch more copies of KARMA Kronos recently, having released that important Mac OS X update back in July - even without videos.

I totally agree more videos and instructional materials from myself would help sell more copies, but it's always a trade-off, with having to spend time on keeping the software functional on the new OS's that Apple and MS release. I don't know why you think I am not listening and take offense at your suggestions - I don't - but I'm also not going to suddenly drop everything and make a bunch of videos until the software is all caught up. I'm finally days away from releasing a new version of KARMA Motif (3.1) that finally adds support for Mac OS X 10.7, 10.8 and 10.9, not to mention adds support for the Yamaha MOXF, MOX, and Motif-Rack XS. This stuff takes enormous amounts of time and there just hasn't been any time to make the instructional videos that I agree would be nice to have. So, if I lose some sales to a lack of glitzy instructional videos, I gain them back by opening up the software to new instruments and people with newer computers...

The rest of this thread/discussion has been very interesting to me, and I'd like to comment on it at some point - I've just been too busy with the new release and the upcoming NAMM. Thanks for the interest!

All good!!!! And I completely understand. Good luck!!!

[chris]

Before thinking of integrating Karma 3 into Kronos, I would rather prefer that there would be an improved version of the current one with more editable features such as custom arpeggios that you can draw on a grid matrix like on the Korg Triton.

I really miss the power of Triton dual polyphonic arpeggiator and can't understand why a modern workstation like the Kronos doesn't have that feature considering the acquisition cost of this machine.

Not ready to pay extra $ for a new Karma.

[erikv]

I would definately pay for karma 3.0. But only if it comes as an OS update into the Kronos

[Peas&Carrots]

Throwing in a bit of a curve ball here as it seems unlikely that V3.0 will make it into Kronos:

The Karma software IS COMPLICATED. Loads of twiddly bits and fancy frills that cause much head scratching for the uninitiated (me included). It can also be super simple and can produce the bread and butter arps and patterns that many users want. Unfortunately the software and the GE's are by default set up with much complexity.

I think it is because of these perceived complexities that most people don't make full use of it. As a result most of the Karma GE's available are from Mr Kay and close friends. These GE's are great but they mostly have a similar flavour (aka The Stephen Kay Karma Band). Now of course The Stephen Kay Band is also great but I don't want to listen to the same band forever...

It's probably been suggested on the forum before but hows about a Karma GE Shop?
(edit: for clarification, I mean in addition to or an extension of the existing Karma Fixed Sound Sets currently available)

This may help generate GE's with a different feel and create much more interest in the Karma product. Adding small sets of GE's for $1-2 each would not be off-putting for most. A free dedicated user GE download section could also help but obviously results are likely to be mixed.

As already mentioned earlier a Karma "light" version would be another way forward with basic user GE pattern creation capabilities. This would be a huge benefit if it was added into Kronos but as Mr Kay has already implied this will probably not happen. A light version might also work for Mac / PC and would help create a larger user base and more interest?

[T7]

The lack of a simple arpeggiator with user programmable patterns is just plain ignorant of Korg.

[traveler]

The lack of a simple arpeggiator with user programmable patterns is just plain ignorant of Korg.

+1

I wouldn't call it ignorance, but it reminds me of the mindset of the makers of cheap new stereos. They all come with eq presets with fancy names that sound terrible. And they won't let you eq the music manually the way you need it, even though the technology is clearly there.

[spaceman3]

Cmon KORG, give us user ge in KRONOS.
Jeeze!