Temporary withdrawal of support for Korg Pa products

keyboard · Post by **keyboard** » Mon May 12, 2008 12:12 am

I agree with "BasariStudios".....

It is a shame that a professional Instrument like the PA Series Arrangers, are not exploited with software created by a Professional Company like Korg.

The PA Series Arrangers can be like the old "M1"....I can still find software for this old keyboard..

Just give us some tools to work with... Maybe someone can create a poll to see what the Users really want...

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Mon May 12, 2008 12:24 am

M1 and T3 have better, more and more professional software then PA1X or 2X.

...member??? 20 years ago!

rikkisbears · Post by **rikkisbears** » Mon May 12, 2008 7:08 am

Hi,
that was my impression also, that korg was holding back on info that allowed 3rd party developers to create software??

Personally up to date I've been quite content using the functions within the PA800 itself. I'm just a hobbyist. I don't use sampled sounds except for some audio grooves I put together. Currently I'm blissfully unaware of some of the hassles I may run into as far as saving .sets which include samples & sounds. Maybe some 3rd party software will come to the rescue?

About the only thing I do spend a fair bit of time on in the pa800 is the style maker section of the keyboard.

best wishes
Rikki

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Mon May 12, 2008 8:34 am

Soon we will have a new law inn europe that forcess everyone that sells software in europe to make their "api" open to everyone and provide torough information how to interact with this software...

Since keyboards and other hardware currently are just computers with black and white keys attached to them, they would also have to follow this law...

Its to be expected to be accepted later this year..

(main reason off this law is to make sure no software company will eveer be able to get an almost monopoly positions... Micro$oft is offcourse the main target of this law)

And i think Korgs protection pollicy is far worse then what we see from M$ or @pple... they bluntly refuse right out to give any information.

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Tue May 13, 2008 1:43 pm

I recently received some private correspondence from Korg. They told me that there is no intention within Korg to "protect their file format" or "withold" the necessary information from other developers. It is just that the compression format is extremely complex and a lot of effort is required to create an API/DLL, and the resources to do this are not available right now. I was told that Korg will produce this API/DLL eventually, but they can not at the moment tell me when.

My friend Mick Barry has persuaded me to be more patient about this, and he and I will be meeting up with Chris Whitehead in June to commence work on DVD4 of the Arranger Secrets series, which will be filmed on the Pa2x.

Even though I have been given no promises of a release date for the API/DLL by Korg, I will end my protest. The best thing everyone can do is to write to the dealer who sold you your Pa2x/ Pa800/ Pa500 keyboard, I posted some suggested words earlier. This might result in increased priority being given to developing the API/DLL, following which 3rd party tools (including those developed by Mick) to manage the Pa800 files and merge .SET files and manage user libraries of styles and sounds will undoubtedly be made available.

Paolo@Korg · Post by **Paolo@Korg** » Tue May 13, 2008 3:01 pm

Dear Gentlemen,

At Korg and Korg Italy we have been following the discussions going on the various Korg forums because we believe that it’s not only important but even incumbent for us to have an open windows for the real Korg users. We believe in honest feedback and suggestions for our products.

Our policy has always been to try to give more flexibility and power to our products and therefore to our users. In addition, regular periodical O.S. releases bear witness our commitment to a constant improvement of our products.

Having said that, no-one could be sorrier than we are about what we believe is a misunderstanding between Rob Sherratt and some people here in Korg Italy regarding the topic “Temporary withdrawal of support for Korg Pa products”. We really hope that Rob will change his mind and continues with his valuable support to this forum.

In these days our laboratory is strongly working on a new O.S. release that will give to you all some stunning new and important features for Pa800 and Pa2X Pro and consequently it’s impossible for us to give any support to any external software developer. It’s not that we want to keep our format secret or things like that, it’s only that due to the complexity of our software architecture it’s extremely difficult to put anyone in condition to develop any tool for our keyboards, and we believe “impossible” for occasional programmers. It would mean months of training and a lot of time to dedicate to produce an exhaustive documentation. In addition, we cannot spare anyone currently on staff because they are so busy with new operating systems and new products. Loaning someone out would not be a simple, easy or fast task. Please believe us on this – we do not exist to cause problems for dedicated Korg supporters.

The solution to that could be a much more “detectable” format in the years to come but we can assure you all that we are seriously considering an overall simplification of our system, both in terms of user interface or innovative features.

Sometimes we are forced to make a choice, we are forced to decide to give priority to one thing rather than something else and this may displease someone or some people. What we can guarantee is that we’ll always take your suggestions under serious consideration and will always monitor this forum. However we want you all to know that Korg relies on a complex network of distributors and dealers all around the world and occasionally it can happen that the feedback we get from them doesn’t really overlap with the need of some of you.

We are confident that once this misunderstanding is cleared, that you all could continue to put your trust in our company. From our side, we will never leave you behind (unlike many competitors do after the purchase). We believe in keeping your keyboards upgraded as often as we can with new important features that will help you to make a better music. This is always our main goal and our first inspiration: music!

Thanks you in advance for your understanding.

Korg Italy

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:02 pm

Dear Paolo and Korg Italy,

Thank you very much for your considerate reply. I know that most users on the forum look forward to the file formats being more manageable. As you know, it is extremely difficult at the moment for users to merge together styles and sounds from multiple sources and produce their own library of styles and sounds for use when playing in particular venues. It is so difficult and time consuming to do when user samples are involved, that it is almost impossible to explain even with two thousand words to describe it.

Hence Mick Barry's developments which unfortunately are stalled due to complexity of the compressed Pa800 file format.

Anyway, I will continue my support and faith in Korg products on the assumption that the Sound and Style and User Sample file management issues will be something that Korg solve in the future. It would be helpful in restoring confidence if a timescale could be announced for this.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:30 pm

'Hence Mick Barry's developments which unfortunately are stalled due to complexity of the compressed Pa800 file format. '

Maybe a short term solution is for Korg to just provide the documentation which they certainly should have available that is associated JUST with the compression fromat so we can at least de-compress the file data??

Of couse a set of API's is much more involved.

Looking forward to the next OS, to see if any of the things I desire are there........

Thanks,
Lee

PraiseTheLord · Post by **PraiseTheLord** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:33 pm

Paolo, thank you for a thoughtful response. I am naturally excited by what you describe as"stunning new and important features".

Right now, however, I feel the Pa2X is lacking a sufficient variety of styles and anything that can promote development of styles should, imho, be a top priority for Korg. Most of the negative chatter that I have seen on keyboard forums talks to this. I have heard people not choosing Korg because of it, and I have heard people going back to another manufacturer because they soon find the limited number of styles too restricting.

I believe, with the 61 and 76 key offering and all the other wonderful features you have huge additional market oportunity if you were able to enable that. Just my 2 cents worth......

Best wishes

Graham

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Tue May 13, 2008 5:40 pm

Grazie Paolo!

AVI6520 · Post by **AVI6520** » Tue May 13, 2008 8:03 pm

THAT'S IT!

DEAR PAOLO-THENK YOU VERY MUCH!

When that I start to organize my styles, I have load the first 16 styles at one time but after it I had to load the next group of 16 styles one after one and not in one time, and that is because that the new PA have 32 bank's and the old groups was saved from 16 bank's, [and like that- procedure of 10 favorites…],
I said to my self- "what stupid will make the program like that…"

- only one that not use the PA that he have produce,

and with some little other Bug's that giving you the same filling,

I stop to believe that thing's will be change,

and that to speak about new real good improvement in the OS, It just to lose time and not helpful.
Other people that did not really use the PA can and will speak about the "dream's"…
And I just need to find the way's to surround the problem's…with out to lose time in the forum….

But now- communication!

…."In these days our laboratory is strongly working on a new O.S. release that will give to you all some stunning new and important features for Pa800 and Pa2X Pro and consequently it’s impossible for us to give any support to any external software developer….
....
We are confident that once this misunderstanding is cleared, that you all could continue to put your trust in our company. From our side, we will never leave you behind (unlike many competitors do after the purchase). We believe in keeping your keyboards upgraded as often as we can with new important features that will help you to make a better music. This is always our main goal and our first inspiration: music!

The faith is coming back!
You give us the fillings that we have the mistake and just need to be patient, and there is use to are reporting and wishes, and there is some one to speak to,

We all hope that we will see that light at the end of the tunnel…

Appreciate - AVI.

miden · Post by **miden** » Tue May 13, 2008 8:30 pm

To be perfectly honest, what a load of rubbish...

This (PC support editing) has been continually asked for, for over 4 years..it was originally asked of Korg for some form of PC support, back when the PA1x was in op sys 1.5!!!

And STILL we are getting the same response.."...we want to but are too busy right now"

And they said pretty much the same back then too...."...we are working on a fantastic new op sys upgrade for the PA1x, so we have no-one to be able to do this

So they dangle the carrot ( some new featues) which all of you hungrily "lap up" and so this genie goes back in the bottle.

It WILL come up again when people realise Korg have "shortchanged" them again.

This is too complicated an instrument to NOT have some form of official PC editing suite.

If Korg REALLY wanted to do this they would.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

miden · Post by **miden** » Tue May 13, 2008 9:01 pm

And another thing...

If Ric (Freak) can produce PRM and the XRM in his spare time and with very limited resources, then I am sure Korg with all their resources PLUS access to system files could at least produce something.

Even if all it did was to allow a user to move resources (styles, songs sounds etc etc) to locations of their choosing, or to suit their method of operation it would be a boon.

After all, the on-board sequencer is okay, as is the style editing/creating, but a small program to make putting it all together via a PC/USB connection, to ME, is far more important than many of the so-called "features" Korg add, which hardly anyone really, REALLY uses in real time.

Lika · Post by **Lika** » Tue May 13, 2008 9:02 pm

Hi folk ...

I thought don't tell anything but ...
Maybe someone will doesn't understand me but I will tell again .

KORG PA has given us a very good (maybe the best ) arranger keyboard with almost infinite facility/resource and we instead of use all those facility/resource what we do - we tell that "Korg PA has not good and more preset STYLES" ...
Then for what Korg has made all these facility/resource ? I can't imagine that someone can guess which kind styles you,me,he... like .....
The preset styles by me are for the beginning (for start) - we have the knife and we have the bread and we have to cut as we like and how we like ...
MAKE STYLES YOU LIKE !!!
The thing was about soft for managing Korg PA libraries ....

sound4sina · Post by **sound4sina** » Tue May 13, 2008 9:18 pm

tramannoni wrote: [...]

In these days our laboratory is strongly working on a new O.S. release that will give to you all some stunning new and important features for Pa800 and Pa2X Pro [...]

Korg Italy

Hence, we all know the capabilities of the Pa800 and Pa2x. But the word “stunning” and Pa800/Pa2x in the same sentence might arouse too many minds…