NAMM 2017 Surprise

[Jan1]

The workstation is already dead.
It has been for 10 years.
The Kronos is an OASYS with added pianos
- 2005 technology.

Talking utter nonsense in each of 4 out of 4 statements in a row: that's quite an achievement. Wow!
Saying the Kronos is dead since it appeared nearly reads like grandpa saying the iPad is dead - since 10 years.
Well, because he never got to using one.

On topic: The Kronos has been an extremely successful working horse since it appeared. It's still on top of the game with it's 9 engines, user sample streaming, audio and midi sequencing on board for backing etc. (and far ahead of the Oasys in many important ways). It delivers all a keyboarder needs for live performing (plus some for recording), across all kinds of music. It needs some skillful programming though.

A Nord-Stage like (not: Montage like with it's heavy design flaws, midi etc.) performance keyboard SV-2 would not be a bad idea. Many live keyboarders love the easy hands on approach with essentials in direct reach.

...and on top of that AKAI just released the new MPC which is described as a 'DAW in a box'.
Sorry Kevin, but to state that the workstation is dead simply is not correct.
I will even go as far as stating that in the coming years you will see NEW workstations appearing on the scene.

[Kevin Nolan]

The workstation is already dead.
It has been for 10 years.
The Kronos is an OASYS with added pianos
- 2005 technology.

Talking utter nonsense in each of 4 out of 4 statements in a row: that's quite an achievement. Wow!
Saying the Kronos is dead since it appeared nearly reads like grandpa saying the iPad is dead - since 10 years.
Well, because he never got to using one.


On topic: The Kronos has been an extremely successful working horse since it appeared. It's still on top of the game with it's 9 engines, user sample streaming, audio and midi sequencing on board for backing etc. (and far ahead of the Oasys in many important ways). It delivers all a keyboarder needs for live performing (plus some for recording), across all kinds of music. It needs some skillful programming though.

A Nord-Stage like (not: Montage like with it's heavy design flaws, midi etc.) performance keyboard SV-2 would not be a bad idea. Many live keyboarders love the easy hands on approach with essentials in direct reach.

I didn't say it wasn't successful. It's a 10(+) year old paradigm, and we're all aware of your desire to hold onto it for dear life.

Alas the world has moved on - and indeed so has Korg, apart from minor cosmetic changes and additions, the Kronos is the OASYS with pianos added - there has been no OS / Sequencer / Karma / EX development for it since the noughties.

It was a fantastic concept for decades where computers could not handle the workload that a workstation could, but the writing was on the wall for the development of the workstation concept as soon as DAW's and computers became essentially powerful enough.

So you can wish away for the past glories of Workstations all you like - Korg have long since moved on - they are cashing in (rightfully) on the amazing OASYS concept which was more than decade ahead of its time and now maturing (in some respects) with the easy additions that Korg CAN make without having to commit serious resources to that development.

But rest assured - you will not see a new OASYS or Kronos from Korg - as said - they literally have no development plan for that, the world is not waiting for it, and the world will not buy it if released.

Workstations like Krome and Montage will continue - there's always a niche market worth investing in - but workstations are not the driving force of the keyboard market they once were and any argument along those lines is wishful thinking.

Again - try to keep it impersonal - the reason I don't use a Kronos is because I regard it as inferior to the OASYS, of which I use two. I have exquisite pianos in sample libraries, and the OASYS, ergonomically and as a hardware implementation is a class act and is vastly superior to the Koronos; so I can assure you, I'm already using THE pinnacle of workstation technology at my facility.


In short, Kronos is exquisite, is selling very well, looks great these days and is getting some cosmetic attention from Korg - but it's a dead paradigm and Korg are not committing to the future of the "Workstation"

[GregC]

I didn't say it wasn't successful. It's a 10(+) year old paradigm, and we're all aware of your desire to hold onto it for dear life.

Alas the world has moved on - and indeed so has Korg, apart from minor cosmetic changes and additions, the Kronos is the OASYS with pianos added - there has been no OS / Sequencer / Karma / EX development for it since the noughties.

It was a fantastic concept for decades where computers could not handle the workload that a workstation could, but the writing was on the wall for the development of the workstation concept as soon as DAW's and computers became essentially powerful enough.

So you can wish away for the past glories of Workstations all you like - Korg have long since moved on - they are cashing in (rightfully) on the amazing OASYS concept which was more than decade ahead of its time and now maturing (in some respects) with the easy additions that Korg CAN make without having to commit serious resources to that development.

But rest assured - you will not see a new OASYS or Kronos from Korg - as said - they literally have no development plan for that, the world is not waiting for it, and the world will not buy it if released.

Workstations like Krome and Montage will continue - there's always a niche market worth investing in - but workstations are not the driving force of the keyboard market they once were and any argument along those lines is wishful thinking.

Again - try to keep it impersonal - the reason I don't use a Kronos is because I regard it as inferior to the OASYS, of which I use two. I have exquisite pianos in sample libraries, and the OASYS, ergonomically and as a hardware implementation is a class act and is vastly superior to the Koronos; so I can assure you, I'm already using THE pinnacle of workstation technology at my facility.


In short, Kronos is exquisite, is selling very well, looks great these days and is getting some cosmetic attention from Korg - but it's a dead paradigm and Korg are not committing to the future of the "Workstation"

Thats not an unreasonable argument from a product development standpoint.

Do you think Korg was 'surprised ' by the # of Kronos sales and its 5-6 yr sales run ?

For folks like myself, the vital element was to get the price to $3000 ( give or take depending on your country).

but it would not surprise me that the Oasys/Kronos is ' as good as it gets'. Your statement that Korg is not committed to taking the workstation to the next plateau of power/features ( I paraphrased here) does not bother me .

It would be amusing ( and fun) if all this proven wrong this month and Korg does what it only they can do.

[jimknopf]

Just for those with a short memory, seriously claiming that the Oasys plays remotely in the same league as the Kronos:
This is what the Kronos has over the Oasys:
- new Piano-Engine with 2x Gb-Premium-Pianos (plus many more high quality pianos available only for the Kronos)
- new EPiano-Engine with 5 different Rhodes/Wurly models
- updated: new B3 engine vastly superior over the old one
- SSD-drive for fast streaming (no mechanical harddisk dangers)
- signifcantly stronger processor
- smooth sound transition across all modes:
- setlist-function
- many new programs / combis: not just from the new Engines, but also 7 full HD-1 banks (128 patches each) compared to 5 in the Oasys, and lots of additional banks not present in the Oasys for user patches
- drum Track feature with possibility to add 1000 user drum patterns
- 75 drumkits compared to 40 in the Oasys; including new high quality mega-drumkits
- sample-comparison of factory-content: Oasys: 3,518 drum multisamples from dem standard ROM, EXs1 mono and EXs1 stereo; Kronos: 7,000 drum multisamples from Standard ROM, EXs1 ROM expansion 1 in stereo, EXs5 ROM Expansion 2, EXs8 - Rock Ambience Drums, und EXs9 - Jazz Ambience Drums.
- higher sequencer resolution
- 24-bit audio-recording (Oasys 16-Bit)
- lots of choices from additional sound libraries, among them many first class libraries which are not available for the Oasys
- since OS 2: user sample streaming (which is a revolution for the use of big user libraries). That allows getting virtually any sample instrument sound in high quality into your Kronos, whatever you want and need.
- since OS 2: second SSD allowing to have a) lots of data plus any kind of backups directly on board for super fast access
- despite all the better specs: much easier to carry
- since last update: fast split mode
I'm not even sure I mentioned everything.

All in all, that's two completely different instruments, for anyone knowing how to use a powerful workstation live. For live purposes, the Kronos has developed miles ahead of the Oasys. Calling that "cosmetic" is nothing but unwillingly funny from my view.


Concerning the so called "death of workstations": "Workstation" is just a name for something you can use live in a specialized way for your musical purposes: in a melting of soft- and hardware, which you just don't get from your casual notebook, nor from any simpler synth or performance keyboard. The definition of "workstation" will surely change with developing hard- and software, but the underlying idea is as much alive as it ever could be.

Jan1 is completely right: the workstation concept has just expanded, in sharp contrast to dying, and reached the drum box market, where it will be extremely sought after by DJs and performers as long as the software in it works well.

I don't think Korg will present a new workstation 2017. But they could advance the Kronos as much with new hard- and software, as the Kronos is ahead of the Oasys, if they wish to do so - anytime. For the moment, they do not even have a Kronos competitor - after 6 years!

[SanderXpander]

I haven't cared much about the sequencer part of workstations for a while but am continuously reminded by those who frequent the Kronos forum that it's a big deal. Whether or not they include a sequencer in the next model makes no differencr for me but if they continue to expand on the Kronos sound base and possibilities I'll definitely buy the inevitable successor at some point.

I'm with Jim, no disrespect to the Oasys but functionally the Kronos is miles ahead for my purposes. The multi-gb pianos and SST alone have revolutionized my live sound. But whatever, the more people that decide the Oasys was way better and the workstation is dead, the less competition I'll have.

[Timo]

But rest assured - you will not see a new OASYS or Kronos from Korg - as said - they literally have no development plan for that, the world is not waiting for it, and the world will not buy it if released.

blah blah blah...

In short, Kronos .... it's a dead paradigm and Korg are not committing to the future of the "Workstation"

Absolute waffle, and extremely short sighted.

Workstations can and will evolve, I'm sure you will see. ...As soon as they gain an internet connection and an app-based ecosystem along with cloud storage. That would be my vision for a future workstation, and it's entirely valid.

Kevin, you speak merely for yourself. Do not speak on behalf of others, you are not entitled to do so.

[Koekepan]

If you look at a Kronos (or Krome, or Kross) today, it really combines two functions.

The first function is as a competent performance all-rounder. Master keyboard, sending MIDI. Splits, combinations, sequenced content, some audio mangling.

The other function is as composition master tool, commanding the studio. Here sequencing and editing feature more heavily.

Perhaps they want to split those two functions, given that they are occasionally in some tension with respect to each other. In performance, immediacy is an absolutely key attribute, while in the studio it is mostly valuable for capturing snippets of inspiration. On the other hand, the kind of depth that is most valuable in the studio is often rather dead weight on stage.

Maybe that's their approach?

[Bachus]

I think workstations are changing from a complete recording studio ... into a workstation that can create everything you need for a live performance... and thats sounds, sequences, pads, arps, arrangements... anything you can think of for playing live solo or in a band

For recording and mastering of final productions nothing beats a DAW in a studio

[fcoulter]

As soon as they gain an internet connection and an app-based ecosystem along with cloud storage. That would be my vision for a future workstation, and it's entirely valid.

A bad idea. I've been to many places where the internet, and even 4G cellular service, is horrible. Requiring access to the internet to operate fully will shut you out from many venues.

[Koekepan]

I think workstations are changing from a complete recording studio ... into a workstation that can create everything you need for a live performance... and thats sounds, sequences, pads, arps, arrangements... anything you can think of for playing live solo or in a band

For recording and mastering of final productions nothing beats a DAW in a studio

I can see your point, and I do use DAWs from time to time, but I'm not sure that I quite agree that nothing beats a DAW. For deep focus on your craft, general purpose computing devices cannot compare with purpose-built hardware.

Also, I think that the two roles correspond on some level to AKAIpro's Live and X standalone devices. The MPC Live is unquestionably a live performance and roadworthy device, but the MPC X is clearly studio-ready. Could you run a studio with a Live? Sure, if you don't need CV/gate (I don't, so it would probably work well for me). Could you hit the road with an MPC X? Sure, but it's bigger, has no internal battery (as far as I can tell) and is generally apt to be more of a pain. (I would run it with a UPS on stage, if I were to use such a thing.)

So there you have it; two very credible, purpose-designed devices, both fully deserving of the name Workstation, and with respective focus on performance and studio.

I can't see that KORG couldn't follow in that general direction and, what the hell, maybe do a better job because this is their castle.

[Bachus]

I think workstations are changing from a complete recording studio ... into a workstation that can create everything you need for a live performance... and thats sounds, sequences, pads, arps, arrangements... anything you can think of for playing live solo or in a band

For recording and mastering of final productions nothing beats a DAW in a studio

I can see your point, and I do use DAWs from time to time, but I'm not sure that I quite agree that nothing beats a DAW. For deep focus on your craft, general purpose computing devices cannot compare with purpose-built hardware.

Also, I think that the two roles correspond on some level to AKAIpro's Live and X standalone devices. The MPC Live is unquestionably a live performance and roadworthy device, but the MPC X is clearly studio-ready. Could you run a studio with a Live? Sure, if you don't need CV/gate (I don't, so it would probably work well for me). Could you hit the road with an MPC X? Sure, but it's bigger, has no internal battery (as far as I can tell) and is generally apt to be more of a pain. (I would run it with a UPS on stage, if I were to use such a thing.)

So there you have it; two very credible, purpose-designed devices, both fully deserving of the name Workstation, and with respective focus on performance and studio.

I can't see that KORG couldn't follow in that general direction and, what the hell, maybe do a better job because this is their castle.

I disagree, as soon as i load daw software, add a dedicated user interface, and a dedicated audio device/mixer.... its no longer a general purpose computer... its a dedicated device for audio recording.....

A kronos is nothing but a computer running dedicated software with a dedicated interface....


There is no hardware available that comes close to the diversity and posibilities of a DAW like protools or cubase

[Koekepan]

A kronos is nothing but a computer running dedicated software with a dedicated interface....


There is no hardware available that comes close to the diversity and posibilities of a DAW like protools or cubase

What you say is entirely correct, of course. We could all purchase some sort of small computer, tuck it away, add a touchscreen, add a DAW, add control surfaces and so on.

What I was talking about was absence of email remainders, facebook spam, interesting distractions on KORG fora ...

... and of course, the ineluctable pleasures of general computer (mis)management.

It really comes down to whether or not you want a computer in your studio, or whether you perhaps want a computer-free element to your studio, for a variety of reasons.

[Kevin Nolan]

But rest assured - you will not see a new OASYS or Kronos from Korg - as said - they literally have no development plan for that, the world is not waiting for it, and the world will not buy it if released.

blah blah blah...

In short, Kronos .... it's a dead paradigm and Korg are not committing to the future of the "Workstation"

Absolute waffle, and extremely short sighted.

Workstations can and will evolve, I'm sure you will see. ...As soon as they gain an internet connection and an app-based ecosystem along with cloud storage. That would be my vision for a future workstation, and it's entirely valid.

Kevin, you speak merely for yourself. Do not speak on behalf of others, you are not entitled to do so.

Back on topic - there will be no workstation surprises in NAMM 2017 from Korg. I'm even happy to wager $10 with anyone here that there well be no more workstations from Korg with radical developments (all the suggested developments here are already in Gadget and a thousand apps costing $3.99)

[Derek Cook]

Alas the world has moved on - and indeed so has Korg, apart from minor cosmetic changes and additions, the Kronos is the OASYS with pianos added - there has been no OS / Sequencer / Karma / EX development for it since the noughties.

Hi, Kevin. Sometimes we agree, sometimes I beg to differ, and in this case I beg to differ

It depends on what you mean by "OS development" of course, but since purchasing my Kronos X in 2014 (after giving up on Yamaha ever doing anything interesting again), I have installed about 5 OS updates on my Kronos, including one that (for nothing) that brought my Kronos X up to the same baseline as a Kronos 2.

And as I understand it, the Kronos has models that the OASYS does not have. I.e. Whilst you can trace the lineage back a fair bit, there has been development, even if the large revolution was a while back and the changes since then have been incremental.

With the Kronos, Korg can probably afford to rest on its laurels for a while, as I still do not see any direct competitor in sight.

I'll await with interest to see what NAMM does bring. I still need to retire my EX5 from gigging this year, so need to make some buying choices. It might be a Montage, or it might be something else......

[fcoulter]

Back on topic - there will be no workstation surprises in NAMM 2017 from Korg. I'm even happy to wager $10 with anyone here that there well be no more workstations from Korg with radical developments (all the suggested developments here are already in Gadget and a thousand apps costing $3.99)

Do you mean ever, or at NAMM 2017?

If you mean NAMM 2017, only a sucker would bet against you. First, Korg's already made their announcements. Second, without someone else competing with the Kronos, there is no reason for Korg to do anything other than incremental improvements.

If you mean ever, then the problem would be collecting the bet. You will never collect the money from me if I bet you because I can always say "wait for next year." The only money that will ever transfer is when (if) Korg does do something that qualifies. At that point, you'll owe me.

I suppose that if Korg discontinues the Kronos and doesn't replace it within a year or two, then you'd have a good argument that you won. But that would take years. (How many of the new spectrum series Kronos can Korg sell?)