Behringer has a new synth

[spaceman3]

Wow! i keep commenting on this off subject, subject.
I guess it is hard for me to ignore a good debate.
At the end of the day, I actually agree that analogue is very important to sound.
I have several tube preamps myself.
And if reel to reel wasnt such a pain in the butt to work with, i
would probably still be using a reel to reel.
Still do not get the apeal of records over cds.
I do get why people love analogue synths.
They make wonderfull sounds.
I would not want to write a whole song with one, as it would be hard for me to replicate alot of instrument sounds i use. (band in a box)
If i did, i would end up with a milky mess.
Plus i am way overly frugal to make that investment.
Also analogue synths spook me.
I would be wondering, is it gonna break down on me today,and i do not have the skill to repair it.
As far as my opinion.
Im probably only half right.
But probably so is everyone else.
Music and sound achievement is somewhat subjective, and there are so very many ways of creating different sounds and textures.
I do respect all your opinions here, and i do apreciate the science and facts you have presented.
It is good.

[Thoraldus]

Came in here looking for info on Behringer Synth ... got sucked into an analog-digital vortex. Déjà vu all over again!

[SanderXpander]

Opinions are not facts. You can't say that tape distortion is better than no distortion, sorry but once you start talking about "better" or "worse" with things like this it's definitely opinion. When the cd was launched as a medium many mix engineers were ecstatic that they could finally mix without the constraints of vinyl and tape. Why do you think there are so many "remastered" versions of albums? Whether or not you think they are actually better is OPINION. Modern digital audio recording is more accurate than analog audio. That is a fact. And I say that even though I too enjoy tape compression and vinyl sound, sometimes.

[jazlover]

One of my favorite Laws in Biology..... Is the Law of Animal Behavior : under controlled circumstances, "an animal will behave as it damned well pleases". When it comes to human opinions and behavior.... this is even more certain.

Truly, Korg Forums is an unexpected and enlightening place..... I do wish it was possible to meet......once a year in a big place filled with drink, good stories and of course (some great music).

[Kevin Nolan]

Opinions are not facts. You can't say that tape distortion is better than no distortion, sorry but once you start talking about "better" or "worse" with things like this it's definitely opinion.... .

Who said that ?

[spaceman3]

Just for the record.
I never said cds are better than most tape.
I said, cds are better than records.
And i never once said that tape distortion isnt a good thing, or it was inferior in some way.
I was talking about analogue synths.
And that is an opinion, that is bassed on facts and science and the human factor.
As far as opinions, It still comes down to that.
When i say i like digital synths over analogue, that is an opinion.
Just like if someone likes analogue synths better than digital synths, that is opinions.
There is no magic spec that makes analogue synths better than digital,or the other way around.
Science and facts do not make analogue synths better than digital synths.
That is just your opinion.
When i say your opinion, i mean anybodys.
Simplicity is beautfull.
So here it is.
If choices for gear isnt about opinions.
Then those of us who can aford to get gear we want, would all have the same exact, consoles, synthesizers, mics, preamps, and on down the line.
Using science and facts would lead us to the same conclusions.
Because the specs do not lie. or do they?
I have heard 16 bit converters that sound better than 24 bit.
Toy yamaha cheap keyboards that have sounds that are on par with pro boards (bread n butter sounds mostly).
Or i have seen great specs,but enginering was bad and effected performance and sound.
I could give many other examples but i am trying to be concise.
That is why i do not blindly follow facts and science.
I follow my ear.
First i use facts and science.
Then i use my ear.
Then i use comparison.
Then i form an opinion if i like certain gear or not.
A person can have researched and found what they thought was the perfect synthesizer.
Going by science and fact.
Of course that doesnt mean they will make pleasing music for anyone or not.
But to a degree.
Music, soul, and a good ear transcends science and facts.
I guess for me, the science that works best with music is that it is mathematical.

[jazlover]

After pages of reasoned disagreement....I am a big enough man to admit one thing... that I was completely wrong about..

I thought I was the grumpy old man on this forum.

[spaceman3]

Passion can also be mistaken for grumpyness.

[jeremykeys]

The best violinists looked for the Stradivarious because it was the loudest. Yes, most of them sounded great but IMHO it was just a very very early version of the loudness wars.

Mind you, I find it almost impossible to hear the differences between analogue and digital these days. Sure analogue is pushing electrons but what do you think is running through the circuits of digital?

Anyway, I know that by saying these things I've already pushed some peoples buttons. Sorry! No need to respond with anger. I'm not anywhere close to being in the market for a new synth. I have too many old ones that need serious repair work first.

As for vinyl, my records are far too warped so I can't play them in my car!

[Kevin Nolan]

Just for the record.
...
When i say i like digital synths over analogue, that is an opinion.
Just like if someone likes analogue synths better than digital synths, that is opinions.
There is no magic spec that makes analogue synths better than digital,or the other way around.
Science and facts do not make analogue synths better than digital synths.
That is just your opinion....

There's no denying that there is subjectiveness to much of this. If Sharp loves the Virus most of all - that is of course the most meaningful for him, and if I love the CS80 most of all, it's a different but legitimate stance too. There's no argument there.

But that's not what I'm on about. There is another dimension to all of this that I feel is valid and not rooted in opinion, but based more on a broad consensus derived from an understanding of how electronic and electric instruments lead to dynamism and hence potential for expression in performance (about as 'fact' based as you can get with a human pursuit). That is - in some instances, pure analogue synths offer superiour capabilities to digital synths, and vice versa.


Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. Both my CS80 and my CS70M feature Yamaha's famous Ring Modulator. However, because on the CS70M the Ring Modulator has been placed into the programmable section of the synthesizer, Yamaha needed to place into the signal path an Analogue to Digital Converter. What that means is that when I move the various faders associated with the Ring Modulator, I can hear the ADC quantisation steps, and it renders the Ring Modulator far inferior than on the CS80 performance wise. The uninterrupted, pure analogue Ring Modulator of the CS80 is superior. There's no opinion involved (OK if quantisation is your thing, you may prefer it and argue otherwise - but almost all people who are aware of the differences agree that the CS80 Ring Modulator implementation is better).

It is this sort of uninterrupted (as I jested - quantisation at the electron level) that provides analogue synthesizers with their superior capability for live musical performance; because there is greater scope for dynamics and hence expression.


Similarly - getting back to distortion - if you are into a genre of music using distortion, tube based distortion is almost universally preferred - so while I agree it's 'opinion' to an extent - it's nevertheless beyond an individual opinion and rooted in near if not total unanimity - but equally importantly for sound technical reasons - the nonlinearity associated with tubes give more dynamism and hence scope for expression - and that's what music is all about.


So it's not all down to opinion (as in, purely individual opinion). It you're of the opinion that the CS70M Ring Modulator is better, it's as likely you have impaired hearing, or music judgment, as to having a valid personal opinion.




@jeremykeys - your perspective on the Stradivarius is "unique". That is definitely the first time I have ever seen the words "Stradivarius" and "Loudness Wars" in the same sentence (I assure you - the difference noticed at the concert wasn't loudness ).



.

[jeremykeys]

I've actually played a Guarnerius violin. One of my piano teachers owned it. It was somewhat softer in volume than the Strad style violins that I was used to. That's all I'm saying. It has to do with the shape of the arched top I believe. I could very well be wrong but that's what I noticed. I have never played a real Stradivarius so my findings are probably flawed.

[spaceman3]

Please know i am not speaking of individual specific gear or components, or a specific effect.
As i stated earlier, Yes we all know some things sound better because of what they are.
That is not opinion.
Opinion is me saying that i dont care much for analogue synths or records
because of thier shortcomings, for what i do.
Even if i did not have the facts or knowledge, or specs of a synth.
All i have to do is listen to it , and fiddle with it to know if i like it or not.
When people are listening to a recorded song.
They still have to form an opinion about if they like what they hear,
because when you listen to a recorded song, we do not have the science, or facts, or data telling us exactly how the sounds down to every little detail were made.
My main point is, one cannot say a an analogue synthesizer is better than a digital synthesizer, based on specs, facts, or science.
These things are too subjective.
Not everyone thinks analogue synths are great, and not everyone thinks digital synths are great.
And that brings us back to opinion.
And that is why the analogue vs digital debate will always continue.
Even long after we are gone.

[Jan1]

In the meantime, vol.3 of the teaser series is online, and indeed, it is a polyphonic analog.
And it has a four octave keybed.

[RKfan]

In the meantime, vol.3 of the teaser series is online, and indeed, it is a polyphonic analog.
And it has a four octave keybed.

Back on topic....

This sounds interesting a bit of competition for the minilogue perhaps. I look forward to seeing the teaser

[Broadwave]

In the meantime, vol.3 of the teaser series is online, and indeed, it is a polyphonic analog.
And it has a four octave keybed.

Now I'm *definitely* interested