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I have a source alight, but I didn't mention where this came from because there is a rather large conspiracy theory behind his death.

It is said that he was poisoned back in 1990. He is the original, and back in 1990 he DID build a HHO car.

Now days, you can buy HHO machines for welding and so on, but the guy who is now running with the technology is trying to do what Stanley Meyer did back in 1990. He's now trying to build a HHO car.

He as already managed to build one that runs on 20% normal fuel, and the rest HHO. Given time, he will get to where Stanley Meyer's was back in the 90's. IF he's not knocked off too.

Free energy is dangerous business.

To truly understand all this, you need to spend a lot of time researching. Opinions on the subject without research are pointless.

Regards.
Sharp.

To truly understand all this, you need to spend a lot of time researching. Opinions on the subject without research are pointless.

Yes, I see! This is probably why I haven't developed an opinion yet...

Baldo

Well, there also is the Third Law of Thermodynamics, which they do not mention and which puts the kibosh on perpetual motion machines.

At best they have an efficient energy converter. The reviews will be instructional.

kabosh.....hmmm....


Bear

In Lehmans terms, you can not get more energy out of a system than you put in.

In current scientific Lehmans terms yes - but - its not how it works though is it?
Our world is full of things that man 'gets' energy out of, but certainly put little or no energy into - even the Sun - and in more ways than one.

Timo

Thing is, there's a distinct difference to the laws of physics that we currently know, and the REAL laws of physics that occur in nature that we don't yet know.

Exactly - regarding the Theory of Relativity and the Special Theory of Relativity.
Einstien - arguably the greatest scientest of our time actually had to come up with a second 'Special' Theory of Relativity because the main theory did not fit special conclusions given particular physical parameters.
The STR could not explain away the OTR and vis versa.

Then there was that whole hullaballou over Newtonian Physical models where they dispensed with the 'Ethereal' theory of space where anyone who suggested a type of electro-magnetic 'froth' as opposed to a total vacumn was considered one step away from 'frothing at the mouth.'
Whereas nowadays,lo and behold, 'frothy' space is back in vogue.

But then, the 'scientific community' are like that, aren't they...hehe.

Daz

..and I suspect that if it does work that their altruistic view about sharing this with developing nations etc. could be an important social development.

Daz, you missed your vocation - LOL.


Sharp

What worries me the most is that 2/3rd of the worlds economy is Energy / Fuel, mostly all traded in American $$$.

So, I wonder what will happen if this technology takes this away. Where will this leave Americas economy ?

Sharp, my concern would be more about the US establishment's paranoia over the American economy than any actual real changes to it that may or may not take place.
Though it is true that over 99% of all transport civil and military relies solely on 'Gas', I don't understand why G8 is not pushing massive research into alternate modern feuls such as HHO.

Sharp

I intend to think.... now that it is clear that we deal with VERY limitted ressources in terms of fossil fuels, "their" methods in securing their interests are even more ruthless than ever before.

It certainly seems to me that they are unconcerned at best.


Riot Nerd

Energy doesn't just appear out of thin air.
It always comes from somewhere, and it always goes somewhere.
Perpetual motion machines try to make an end-run around the first part (energy always coming from somewhere), and the universe just plain doesn't work that way.

But Riot, if you don't know where it is comming from, it might aswell be comming out of thin air!
But perhaps not as thin as as we have been lead to believe.

------------------------------

My understanding of Steorn's research at the momment is that they may have a type of energy converter based on the principles of
Mass Reduction = Energy Conservation.
Put simply - not specially, The smaller something is - the less energy it needs to exist, physically and thermo-dynamically or mechanically - that is - as we conventionally understand energy.
Energy doesn't come from somewhere or nowhere - energy, its types, is all around us.

They mention micro-machines so I presume they are attempting to develop something that converts super-efficiently, energy that is already present, electromagnetically, heatwise, gravationally.
If you can reduce massively - the need of energy for a convertion machine to maintain its state, you can increase massively its output.
Reduction of a machines complexity will also 'up' its output coefficiently - that is the less complex the co-efficient equation, the closer to a pure translation of 'already present energy' the 'machine' will facilitate.
Of course, in the Practical Human Physical Universe, proximity to a 'Pure Vacumn' ie. one that will not drain by natural mechanics (Froth) the output of such a machine, would certainly be a challange.

So, Steorn's project seems more of a design project to me than anything else.
The theorys they are working with are nothing new and on their website I don't believe I saw a reference claiming pure perpetual motion achievement.

Only their approach and their intensity of focus is new.
What they do claim is to have acquired a 'machine' that when energetically invigourated, produces more energy than that which was required to initiate its working state - kind of like pushing a car over the brow of a hill.

I am also of the impression that these machines are minute, and that it would require a large amount of them to be practical and applicable - where then their containment could be a 'frothy' issue.
So, regarding the little car over the brow of a universal hill with a very very long and substancialy steep gradient theory -
until they tell us more, it remains to be seen whether or not the weight of their discovery matches their PR,
and who or what is behind the steering wheel.

Peace
Ausser.

http://www.steorn.net/

PS:
Please note my analogys on:
Mass Reduction = Energy Conservation.Put simply - not specially,
imply's correlation with Einstiens Theorys and Special Theorys in word only.


PPS:

Ausser

If you can reduce massively - the need of energy for a convertion machine to maintain its state, you can increase massively its output.

GA:
ehhh....The same would be true of errh...'religious' matters,I suspect Ausser....hemmm?

Prior to Einstein the prinicple of conservation of Energy stated that in a closed system, the total amount of energy remains constant. This implied that energy could neither be created nor destroyed.

The above principle still applies to all non-nuclear reactions.

Then, Eintstein modified the theory to apply to atomic reactions, to say that within a closed system, the total amount of mass-energy remains constant. Within the closed system mass and energy could be interchanged in accordance with Einstein's formula Energy = Mass x speed of light squared. The latter is the principle of operation of atom bombs, nuclear reactions and the sun.

I will tip my hat to Steorn if they have found something new. Certainly we don't understand why the speed of light is always constant in our universe. We can postulate that in other universes the speed of light may not be constant or may have a different value. Maybe Steorn have found a way of varying the speed of light, or tapping into other universes? That could have all sorts of interesting spin-offs such as time travel, inter-dimensional travel, free energy etc. As others have said, we should never place limits on our ability to discover and invent useful things.

However, since Steorn are unable to post a scientific paper to explain what they are doing; they have no published patent applications; they can't explain how their device works; they can't produce a working demonstration; and they can't publish the name of even a single renowned "independent referee" who will vouch for their achievement; then I remain extremely sceptical that anything useful will emerge.

Personally, I will pin my hopes to nuclear fusion as the mechanism for fuelling our futures. This is how the Sun and stars work. It is in theory possible to produce this reaction on a much smaller scale, but this is very costly to achieve (if at all). Until then, let's work out ways to better harness the energy from the fusion reactor we've inherited, and let's learn to live our lives within the constraints set by the energy available from that reactor.

Opps!

Seems my theorizing regardings Steorns tech is Bunkum.

Apparently they have a substancially sized device which runs on the interaction of magnetic fields.
An Orb type thing that is accelerated within a sphere of magnetic fields.
Therfore theoretically - if you can accelerate a substancial mass to a substancial velocity - you should theoretically be able to Tap energy consistently off the motion of the device - a [Tap = Velocity] type equation - provided the force of the Tap doesn't exceed the force of the acceleration necessary to increase velocity - or at least equalize the velocity.
Steorns tech is about as far away from the theory of perpetual motion as the combustion engine.

It could be, that Steorns tech is so simple, that it simply wouldn't be worth patenting it, as once they reveal 'what its all about' every one who's done 3 year physics will know exactly what they are on about.
Its just that it has never been properly tried or developed since from the early days of industrial combustion engines, there didn't appear to be a need.

Therfore Steorns research effort would be in the area friction reduction and the materials and designs necessary to reduce friction.
Those would be certainly patentable whereas arguing that the discovery of magnetic field interaction was your sole intellectual propety would be er...hard to prove.
Thats why Steorn refer to their discovery as 'Technology'.

However, I'm sure Steorn and Sean McCarthy know only too well that the skeptical media would gorge themselves on such a failure such as the demonstration in London's Kenetic Museum on July 4th.
The media likes to scoff sensational failures but it also likes to venerate successful comebacks if sensationally validated.

Heat from the lights - a few ballbearings missing at such a crucial public first showing...hmmmm.....

But if it had been a 'successful' demonstration - would we be all that interested?

It will be interesting to see what happens at the re-run and if such a stunt could prove beneficial media wise ie will all cameras be tuned - even for eccentric sake.
After all, their technology is competing with tried and tested energy conversion models, eg the combustion engine, that are well established - too well probably - and which are themselves very uneconomic.
But economy is a 2 edged sword.

Their PR guy's the real genius....
It could be that the 'July4th Demo Disaster' is really only the calm before the Steorn....sorry couldn't resist.

I do so hope the thing works.

Peace
Ausser

PS:
Thanks for the links Timo.

E = mc^2 + 0.0000000057

Daz wrote:E = mc^2 + 0.0000000057

You can have the mc^2 bit, I'll have the 0.0000000057. Deal?

Sharp wrote:He as already managed to build one that runs on 20% normal fuel, and the rest HHO.

Hey Sharp,

Can you let me have more details on this, name of inventor, patents, publications, test reports etc? I am genuinely interested to follow this up.

I'm only aware of the company Hydrogen Technology Applications, inc (Aquygen) and their two test vehicles fitted with HHO generators, yielding 30% increase in mpg.

P.S> if the vehicle is fitted with its own HHO generator so that HHO is injected into the combustion chamber along with petrol, then the vehicle is still 100% fuelled with petrol - it just generates its own catalyst (HHO) on-board.

P.S> if HHO is supplied by an external "generator" then the energy cost of producing and safely storing the HHO would need to be factored into the equation.

Thanks,
Rob

I do agree with Sharp that there is something in water fuel cells (HHO). I think this is because "Browns Gas" comprising charged ara-Oxygen and Para-Hydrogen acts as a catalyst to promote burning at very low temperatures of other fuels. I can foresee before 2010 there will be new engines operating using Brown's Gas as a catalyst for other fuel, yielding near optimal thermodynamic efficiency of 60%, and with few harmful combustion by-products. I think a company called "Hydrogen Technology Applications" is on the right track, and their results are verifiable:

http://hytechapps.com/

Also, if we can perfect the new enzymes needed to decompose cellulose and starch into ethanol and methane, it would be possible for everyone to have a bio-reactor in their driveway, fuelled by rubbish from which ethanol is collected to fuel the new vehicle engines. Honda is one company investing billions into this. Their results are verifiable, see:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14831968/

So whereas I don't believe in "free" energy in the sense of energy being created from nowhere, I do believe in "green" energy in the sense that we will be fuelling our vehicles and homes directly from cellulose biomass (eg corn stalks and waste paper) which in turn is produced by photosynthesis in green plants and algae using water, carbon dioxide and energy from the Sun. Even that process only captures 3% to 6% of the available energy from the Sun that hits the Earth. You can read more about it in the series of articles here:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/w7241e/w7241e05.htm

Also, we may discover a way of achieving "cold fusion" reactions that yield energy from annihilation of matter in a similar way to that generated in the Sun, but at much lower and safer temperatures, and without the radioactive by-products produced by today's fission reactors. There's an article on this here:

http://www.geocities.com/guidesinexile/index.html

If only a few of these processes become practical on a commercial scale, they will have a huge positive effect on both the environment and on the availability of cheap energy. None of the above processes generate "free" energy from nowhere. Even nuclear fusion and fission reactions release energy from the destruction of matter.

I do hope there will be a decrease of accusations directed at the scientific community (in which I am a member) of being conspirators wanting companies like Steorn and Stanley Meyers to fail. This couldn't be further from the truth. Every new discovery advances the human race and builds the scientific record book. But any claims of new discoveries have to be scrutinised and verified by independent scientists before they can be entered into the book.

Topic Bump....

Anybody hear anything of late...?
Just wondering...

Peace
Ausser.

Nope, haven't heard anything in an while on all this.

Have a look at this though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAK_V73jNVc

Highly likely to be a complete fake due to the crap quality of the video and the noise. Suggests to me that they are trying to hide the sound of a motor powering it. But...yet an interesting watch once you get into it.

Regards.
Sharp.

I saw this one alright - or one like it a few months back.
I thought it was very interesting...

Its kind of like the joke - 'Did you hear the one about the elephant hanging of the edge of a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy...'
Except the daisy happens to be a very powerful magnet/pivot in disguise...

If you look at the size of the 'generator' per say...the big circular disc in the center, the theory I suspect, is that if you get the disc spinning to a certain RPM, the momentum generated should enable the device to trigger a positive spin flip on the magnets at the side which then keep the disc in motion.
Because the disc is comparitively so massive - in theory - one should be able to tap this momentum electromagnetically - converting some of the electricity to monitor and fine tune the flip devices on the magnets to enhance the discs RPM to optimum level - and drain off the access electricity for commercial use as it were...

Mathematically - a line has a beginning and an end - a circle does not.

In theory - its not about creating energy out of nothing as it were - its about tapping the energy or converting the energy already naturally present in magnetics themselves, through a particular process...in theory that is...

Sharp there may indeed be a motor involved.
I seem to remember on a very similar U-Video I saw - something being said about the use of an electric motor to power the flip devices or spin the disc up to a certain RPM - I never actually saw it working with a motor though.

Peace
Ausser.

http://www.steorn.com/news/releases/

http://www.steorn.com/orbo/technology/

Some announcements here regarding summer 09.

Peace
Ausser

Heres some blog ....
The bit about the investments and company valueing..

http://www.wsc.co.uk/component/option,c ... /catid,28/

Unverifiable AFAIK....as I don't know what the Phoenix is - I presume some sort of Stock Report Publication.
Couldn't find an authorative reference to Steorn on the net.

However,
This from the Steorn website implies a locked shop.

http://www.steorn.com/about/investor/

Peace
Ausser.

Seem the guys are back and going to demo this Orbo running this week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTAEWpEmt5Y

See the info attached to the YouTube clip.

If this actually happens I'm getting into my own car to see this with my own eyes.

Regards
Sharp.