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GregC · Post by **GregC** » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:36 pm

Kronos has 1,664 factory programs,

I estimate I use/have used 15-20% of them.

Might be called favorites.

Bottom line, there is a bunch of programs I don't use.
I completed much of the ' exploration ' within 2-3 years.

for example, I haven't touched any of the " Popular Sound programs "
in many years.

Some owners have no interest in the drum programs.

Maybe give some thought how to approach all that volume.

kronoSphere · Post by **kronoSphere** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:02 am

The computer age has always gotten us too used to continual improvements (software and hardware).
But I really believe it is a mistake to demand this kind of thing from a manufacturer of musical instruments.
And why that ?
Because, quite simply, these manufacturers of musical instruments are more attentive to the creation of new products rather than to perfect and improve their old products.

For them it's a question of survival.

And this is quite understandable, even if most of us obviously want infinite improvements

Liviou2004 · Post by **Liviou2004** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:12 am

kronoSphere wrote:The computer age has always gotten us too used to continual improvements (software and hardware).
But I really believe it is a mistake to demand this kind of thing from a manufacturer of musical instruments.
And why that ?
Because, quite simply, these manufacturers of musical instruments are more attentive to the creation of new products rather than to perfect and improve their old products.

For them it's a question of survival.

And this is quite understandable, even if most of us obviously want infinite improvements

I see what you mean, but :

- the Kronos IS a computer ! Based on a Linux software and bugs still remain and need to be fixed.

- Fixing issues is a commercial duty.

- It's a commercial law : An ancient customer must always be considered as a potential new one.
Increasing customers retention is the rule. If not, as there are many new good brands, one day or another the historical company may disappear.

So, it's absolutely not a matter of "an infinite improvement" but only a question of taking care to the existing clientele thanks to a steady communication and attention.

kronoSphere · Post by **kronoSphere** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:39 pm

Yes Liviou2004, yes.

But I have been told that windows 3.1 cannot be updated anymore. Could it be so anormal ???
And my old Triton too : this charming frog would also have liked to be a Kronos.
And my old "Teletel" is crying since years !

Liviou2004 · Post by **Liviou2004** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:45 pm

kronoSphere wrote:Yes Liviou2004, yes.

But I have been told that windows 3.1 cannot be updated anymore. Could it be so anormal ???
And my old Triton too : this charming frog would also have liked to be a Kronos.
And my old "Teletel" is crying since years !

Except that the Triton, Teletel and windows 3.1 are not sold anymore, for a long time now.

But the Kronos is still on the market, nowadays ! So this implies a legal waranty service.

ChrisDuncan · Post by **ChrisDuncan** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:43 pm

GregC wrote:Maybe give some thought how to approach all that volume.

That's actually a highly relevant issue for me. Between the Korg, the JV-2080, Halion, FM8, Padshop and the other synths in Cubase, I have thousands and thousands of patches. Sure, there will be stuff that I don't use or care for, but that's still a ton of source material at my fingertips.

I've never gone through them all to even try and identify favorites, do some kind of tagging / categorization, etc. in order to be able to identify the sounds that speak to me and then know how to find them when I'm looking for that kind of vibe.

The task is made the more tedious because with the exception of the 2080, none of the other sound sources have an auto-preview of the sound (if the Kronos does, I'm unaware of it). So, pick a sound. Bang on the keyboard. Pick the next sound. Thousands of times. And my sound collection is nothing compared to what a lot of you have.

Honestly, I don't even know where to start. How do you guys approach this?

kronoSphere · Post by **kronoSphere** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:07 pm

Even for "alive" products there is a moment when all updates end. It is normal.
Things chang things pass. the law of nature.
I have voted Yes for updates with no illusions at all.

Lightbringer · Post by **Lightbringer** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:18 pm

ChrisDuncan wrote: I've never gone through them all to even try and identify favorites, do some kind of tagging / categorization, etc. in order to be able to identify the sounds that speak to me and then know how to find them when I'm looking for that kind of vibe.

The task is made the more tedious because with the exception of the 2080, none of the other sound sources have an auto-preview of the sound (if the Kronos does, I'm unaware of it). So, pick a sound. Bang on the keyboard. Pick the next sound. Thousands of times. And my sound collection is nothing compared to what a lot of you have.

Honestly, I don't even know where to start. How do you guys approach this?

Probably not the answer you're looking for (and I'll be interested to hear what others have to say). For me, the ultimate solution to this has been to learn about synthesis and sound design. Then instead of flipping through 1000 presets and never finding the sound you're looking for, you can either start with a preset that's just in the general ballpark and coerce it into the sound you want. Or just start from scratch and create your own sound.

Sounds like you have a strong background in guitar. So, similar to that, synthesis is kind of another lifelong journey. Sometimes frustrating, but also frequently very rewarding and empowering.

ChrisDuncan · Post by **ChrisDuncan** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:29 pm

Lightbringer wrote: Probably not the answer you're looking for (and I'll be interested to hear what others have to say). For me, the ultimate solution to this has been to learn about synthesis and sound design. Then instead of flipping through 1000 presets and never finding the sound you're looking for, you can either start with a preset that's just in the general ballpark and coerce it into the sound you want. Or just start from scratch and create your own sound.

Sounds like you have a strong background in guitar. So, similar to that, synthesis is kind of another lifelong journey. Sometimes frustrating, but also frequently very rewarding and empowering.

Appreciate the insights. I'm also a programmer by trade so the tech side isn't difficult for me.

That said, sound design is an even bigger rabbit hole than trying to catalog the ones I already have, so I know what would happen if I ventured into that territory. Not, you know, that I have any obsessive / compulsive tendencies.

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:34 pm

Lightbringer · Post by **Lightbringer** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:38 pm

Ha! Yep. And I fully admit it can be kind of a dangerous rabbit hole. I can't count the number of times I've sat down and fully intended to craft a song and ended up lost in sound sculpting.

For me those two processes (songcraft and soundcraft) don't always integrate seamlessly. But when they click it's magic. I guess I can at least say I enjoy both journeys, and since I don't have any financial pressure to create music, I can indulge in both.

ChrisDuncan · Post by **ChrisDuncan** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:45 pm

GregC wrote: I can't imagine being totally into guitar, then swamping myself with 10,000 keyboard sounds.

Its tough because, you are learning keys. And I don't know what kind of music you wrap your brain around.

For example, if you are 99% Southern guitar rock, that is not as open as " 80's/90's fusion jazz."

That aside, I would simplify by category. Organ, Piano, Electric piano, Clav. acoustic instruments[brass/reed], orchestra instruments.

Lets say, you don't care about funky clarinet. No problem, push it out of the way.

Then, select 5 or 6 instrument categories that jump out to you.

IOW, you have refined your focus and have a manageable approach.

Would that work for you ?

That's sensible thinking but sadly my muse has the attention span of an over caffeinated Chihuahua. I do classic rock, old school rhythm & blues, orchestral, acoustic guitar, synth stuff and probably a few things I don't even know how to classify.

Also, it's easier to organize the things where I know I'm looking for X. If I'm doing a blues / horn band kind of thing, I know I'll be searching for a B3, piano, various horns, etc. Those are specific things that I can put in neatly labeled boxes, as you suggested.

Often, however, it's the sound that inspires the song, particularly with synth / electronic stuff, which is why I'd like to lay ears on everything I have to see what moves me and what's just too weird to be in my particular space.

Of course, I am fully aware that this is a very nice problem to have. 20 year old broke musician me is just rolling his eyes at my dilemma.

ChrisDuncan · Post by **ChrisDuncan** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:56 pm

Lightbringer wrote:Ha! Yep. And I fully admit it can be kind of a dangerous rabbit hole. I can't count the number of times I've sat down and fully intended to craft a song and ended up lost in sound sculpting.

For me those two processes (songcraft and soundcraft) don't always integrate seamlessly. But when they click it's magic. I guess I can at least say I enjoy both journeys, and since I don't have any financial pressure to create music, I can indulge in both.

Yeah, I know what you mean. When I was learning guitar in high school I'd stay up two or three nights without sleep because I just couldn't put it down. Same thing happened when I started to teach myself programming. So when it comes to rabbit holes, I have some pretty well worn bunny slippers.

I tend to be somewhat modal in my creative pursuits. If I'm writing a book I don't feel like playing music. If I'm in the studio I don't feel like programming. If I'm coding I don't feel like writing, and the dog chases his tail. So, if I get into sound design (which is inevitable, if I'm honest with myself), that'll be one more thing I do to the exclusion of all else. I'm just trying to avoid it until I can actually play keys with the same comfort level as guitar. In my case, "know thyself" is a bit of a cautionary tale.

kronoSphere · Post by **kronoSphere** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:35 pm

May I add that, as an exemple, a Peruvian flute can very well be used to write something other than Peruvian music. And very often, it is not even the sound that we were desperately looking for that will best serve the musical theme that we are creating. There is absolutely no rule aquired forever. Dices can roll on the wild side !

ChrisDuncan · Post by **ChrisDuncan** » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:59 pm

And now I have to go listen to the Peruvian flute...

Well, thanks to pedro5's help in getting the patch list for Kronos into Cubase, at least auditioning the sounds will be a little easier. Now I can have a two bar midi sequence of chords or arpeggios cycling and just arrow down through the different patches while it runs.

It might be worth creating a program change sequence to increment one every two bars to save a little wear and tear on the arrow keys. Then maybe I could just copy & paste that and insert a bank change between each group.

See, Lightbringer? This is how it starts...