New Korg Kronos X with OS 2.0

[danatkorg]

even with the new Kronos X (since there is/was no change in the original libraries from Korg), is there still not enough room (RAM) to be able to load EVERYTHING from even Korg?

that's been a concern too... that guys could not even use all the libraries that Korg currently had available.... NOT just being able to load their own... but I guess maybe alternatives will come that will make everything work out...

example: the new 1.6gb piano by one of our Korg users... it's been stated that it only takes up 75mb under the 2.0 OS. and so far the reviews of how it sound are GREAT!!! that means that by loading that piano and "unloading" some of the korg defaults we'd gain quite a bit (429mb) to be exact... (oh yes, and subtract the 75 for the new piano from that)... (354 mb)

my current autoload has some sacrifices in it... (mainly because of the legendary string libraries.... (it's a hog!!!!)

just thinking ahead. I actually think after this 2.0 upgrade I'll be able to load the last set of things I should ever need... but just in case....

Samplers generally can't have everything loaded all the time.

It's very easy to make & use different autoload KSCs for different purposes. For instance, you could have one for a recording project, another for a cover band gig, etc.

[apex]

even with the new Kronos X (since there is/was no change in the original libraries from Korg), is there still not enough room (RAM) to be able to load EVERYTHING from even Korg?

that's been a concern too... that guys could not even use all the libraries that Korg currently had available.... NOT just being able to load their own... but I guess maybe alternatives will come that will make everything work out...

example: the new 1.6gb piano by one of our Korg users... it's been stated that it only takes up 75mb under the 2.0 OS. and so far the reviews of how it sound are GREAT!!! that means that by loading that piano and "unloading" some of the korg defaults we'd gain quite a bit (429mb) to be exact... (oh yes, and subtract the 75 for the new piano from that)... (354 mb)

my current autoload has some sacrifices in it... (mainly because of the legendary string libraries.... (it's a hog!!!!)

just thinking ahead. I actually think after this 2.0 upgrade I'll be able to load the last set of things I should ever need... but just in case....

Samplers generally can't have everything loaded all the time.

It's very easy to make & use different autoload KSCs for different purposes. For instance, you could have one for a recording project, another for a cover band gig, etc.

correct!!! you know how nice it would be though to at least have everything that has been purchased (from Korg) at once?

why does the legendary strings library take up so much more space compared to the other libraries (as a streamed library)

[NuSkoolTone]

Samplers generally can't have everything loaded all the time.

It's very easy to make & use different autoload KSCs for different purposes. For instance, you could have one for a recording project, another for a cover band gig, etc.

correct!!! you know how nice it would be though to at least have everything that has been purchased (from Korg) at once?

why does the legendary strings library take up so much more space compared to the other libraries (as a streamed library)

I agree with both POV here. Dan is right with making multiple setups, and this is relatively painless in the Kronos.

Though Legendary strings is a PIG! That's the reason I didn't buy it. 700mb? Really?

[apex]

Samplers generally can't have everything loaded all the time.

It's very easy to make & use different autoload KSCs for different purposes. For instance, you could have one for a recording project, another for a cover band gig, etc.

correct!!! you know how nice it would be though to at least have everything that has been purchased (from Korg) at once?

why does the legendary strings library take up so much more space compared to the other libraries (as a streamed library)

I agree with both POV here. Dan is right with making multiple setups, and this is relatively painless in the Kronos.

Though Legendary strings is a PIG! That's the reason I didn't buy it. 700mb? Really?

700mb is not bad... but what makes me curious is that is the STREAMING size... that's alot larger than the streaming size of the other libraries...

it's even been said that another users 1.6 gb piano library drops down to a measly 75mb as a streaming sample... THATS AWESOMELY CRAZY....

but a 2.4 gm legendary strings only drops to 700ish mb.... just seems off.

[cello]

It's very easy to make & use different autoload KSCs for different purposes. For instance, you could have one for a recording project, another for a cover band gig, etc.

This is the way OASYS owners have been working for years. Efficient workflow/organisation is the answer.

I have two USB disc drives (both 500Mb) - one is organised into projects. Might be classical, synth, or song 1, song 2, or collection 1, collection 2 etc.

The second drive is a backup of everything - the OASYS and separate sound libraries and .SNGs.

So, okay you have to wait 2 minutes to load up, but there's no way on earth that anyone that uses a Kronos or OASYS will use ALL of the sounds loaded at any one time - it's only ever a tiny subset. If you discover you need another sound set to make your project perfect, unload something not used (EXs3 for example), load up the new set and Save All as a new project.

Done. It's very easy once you're in the habit of it.

And to be honest better to have a good workflow, than rely on an ever increasing RAM size in relation to the commercially available libraries - that's doesn't make sense.

ASSAULT hasn't been released yet and you are GOING to want to it - trust me; and that's in addition to the already available libraries - but your RAM isn't going to be increased; streaming SSD or not.

Workflow, workflow, workflow

[Steve Pavao]

but a 2.4 gm legendary strings only drops to 700ish mb.... just seems off.

Hi Apex,

Dan Phillips explained the RAM usage reduction in a different thread, as follows:

... Each VMT sample takes up the same amount of RAM, regardless of the sample's length. So, the longer the individual samples, the more reduction in RAM usage you'll get.

- Steve Pavao
Korg R&D

[apex]

It's very easy to make & use different autoload KSCs for different purposes. For instance, you could have one for a recording project, another for a cover band gig, etc.

This is the way OASYS owners have been working for years. Efficient workflow/organisation is the answer.

I have two USB disc drives (both 500Mb) - one is organised into projects. Might be classical, synth, or song 1, song 2, or collection 1, collection 2 etc.

The second drive is a backup of everything - the OASYS and separate sound libraries and .SNGs.

So, okay you have to wait 2 minutes to load up, but there's no way on earth that anyone that uses a Kronos or OASYS will use ALL of the sounds loaded at any one time - it's only ever a tiny subset. If you discover you need another sound set to make your project perfect, unload something not used (EXs3 for example), load up the new set and Save All as a new project.

Done. It's very easy once you're in the habit of it.

And to be honest better to have a good workflow, than rely on an ever increasing RAM size in relation to the commercially available libraries - that's doesn't make sense.

ASSAULT hasn't been released yet and you are GOING to want to it - trust me; and that's in addition to the already available libraries - but your RAM isn't going to be increased; streaming SSD or not.

Workflow, workflow, workflow

that sounds good... (i guess), but I think about it like this. when I am creating I don't want to have to realize that "oh boy, I need some strings" then I have to go and then load some new sounds... it's better for "workflow" to have everything available to you, then once you have created what you wanted created that you can shave off the extra...

and while you may not use ALL the sounds at a given time, you could very easily use sounds from EVERY library... (even if a tiny bit from each...)

no one wants to have to decide... lol. If I purchased it, it's probably because I want to use it... it's just a lot to have to think about.

what if you unload something to make room for something else, then later on decide... I need something that was in the set that I unloaded

THEN WHAT DO YOU DO?



this is why I wish you could make subsets of the samples based on a category. or organize/sort them based on a category.... not just based on the library that they belong to. in the global menu page where you can unload all the samples that belong to a certain library, it would be nice to be able to unload (or load) samples based on their category etc...

example:

If I never use clavichord patches, I shouldn't have to waste ANY ram space on clav samples (i used that example because I HATE clav sounds....
#nofunkinme

or if I want to load the entire EXs3 but I know i won't use any programs in a certain category (or sub category)... like trumpet, then I can unload them and them only...

This would (in the long run) allow me to save precious sample space....

for example, what good are the HD-1 piano samples when you consider SG-X?

the multisamples are already categorized as far as selected them to use in a program... how nice would it be to be able to load or unload them in the same manner? I wonder how hard would it be to program something like this into the kronos OS?

now we already kinda have this ability, but you have to hunt into each KSC file and load ONLY the samples that you want loaded... after you guess what is what. lol. this could take forever

Could this be done in PCG TOOLS? there has to be something within PCG tools that associates the programs with certain samples... could a tool be programmed to actually see all the samples that are associated with a certain PCG? and then load and unload them samples from within PCG TOOLS and have PCG TOOLS initialize any program that doesn't have its associated samples loaded?

wow.... this has really got my wheels spinning....

GIVE ME A JOB KORG PLEASE!!!!

[danatkorg]

this is why I wish you could make subsets of the samples based on a category. or organize/sort them based on a category.... not just based on the library that they belong to. in the global menu page where you can unload all the samples that belong to a certain library, it would be nice to be able to unload (or load) samples based on their category etc...

That would be nice, I agree. In the meantime, you can do something similar with KSC files.

the multisamples are already categorized as far as selected them to use in a program...

Only ROM samples, actually, and in the KRONOS the ROM is not intended to ever be un-loaded, to guarantee baseline functionality. (I understand that there are arguments for doing otherwise, but that's how the system works today.)

now we already kinda have this ability, but you have to hunt into each KSC file and load ONLY the samples that you want loaded... after you guess what is what. lol.

Even with categories, you'd still have to find what samples your sounds required. I agree that it would be nice to be able to do this automatically.

Note that you can work in either direction: load the sounds that you want, or un-load the sounds that you don't.

this could take forever

I'd suggest that you try it. It may be faster than you expect.

[michelkeijzers]

now we already kinda have this ability, but you have to hunt into each KSC file and load ONLY the samples that you want loaded... after you guess what is what. lol. this could take forever

Could this be done in PCG TOOLS? there has to be something within PCG tools that associates the programs with certain samples... could a tool be programmed to actually see all the samples that are associated with a certain PCG? and then load and unload them samples from within PCG TOOLS and have PCG TOOLS initialize any program that doesn't have its associated samples loaded?

Simply, not this cannot be done right now.

However some things can be done, but it needs quite some time. I will try to explain below. On the wish list are already some items related to this.

First, I would need to support all sample parameters, not only for the Kronos but also other workstations.

With that info I can do the following:
- Generate lists to show which samples are used by which programs/combis/set list slots.
- Or the other way around: which programs/combis/set list slots are using a specific waveform or a group of waveforms (i.e. ROM / EXs3 etc).

A step further is to create KSC files ... actually I don't have any experience with reading/writing such files but it should be possible. Is it easy? No. Can I get help? Yes, Sharp already offered me a tool he created including source code so when the time is right I will contact him.

Can I create KSC files with specific samples then? probably but as I say, It's a lot of work.

So I might make it at some point, but I can't make any promises when (or even if).

[LivePsy]

Michel, these features would make PCG extremely useful. I encourage you to develop this!

B

[apex]

this is why I wish you could make subsets of the samples based on a category. or organize/sort them based on a category.... not just based on the library that they belong to. in the global menu page where you can unload all the samples that belong to a certain library, it would be nice to be able to unload (or load) samples based on their category etc...

That would be nice, I agree. In the meantime, you can do something similar with KSC files.

the multisamples are already categorized as far as selected them to use in a program...

Only ROM samples, actually, and in the KRONOS the ROM is not intended to ever be un-loaded, to guarantee baseline functionality. (I understand that there are arguments for doing otherwise, but that's how the system works today.)

now we already kinda have this ability, but you have to hunt into each KSC file and load ONLY the samples that you want loaded... after you guess what is what. lol.

Even with categories, you'd still have to find what samples your sounds required. I agree that it would be nice to be able to do this automatically.

Note that you can work in either direction: load the sounds that you want, or un-load the sounds that you don't.

this could take forever

I'd suggest that you try it. It may be faster than you expect.

thanks for your insight. as I always say... it's awesome to have you guys here with us.

[apex]

this is why I wish you could make subsets of the samples based on a category. or organize/sort them based on a category.... not just based on the library that they belong to. in the global menu page where you can unload all the samples that belong to a certain library, it would be nice to be able to unload (or load) samples based on their category etc...

That would be nice, I agree. In the meantime, you can do something similar with KSC files.

the multisamples are already categorized as far as selected them to use in a program...

Only ROM samples, actually, and in the KRONOS the ROM is not intended to ever be un-loaded, to guarantee baseline functionality. (I understand that there are arguments for doing otherwise, but that's how the system works today.)

now we already kinda have this ability, but you have to hunt into each KSC file and load ONLY the samples that you want loaded... after you guess what is what. lol.

Even with categories, you'd still have to find what samples your sounds required. I agree that it would be nice to be able to do this automatically.

Note that you can work in either direction: load the sounds that you want, or un-load the sounds that you don't.

this could take forever

I'd suggest that you try it. It may be faster than you expect.

I think I will try it. lets see what happens.

[michelkeijzers]

Michel, these features would make PCG extremely useful. I encourage you to develop this!

B

I will take it into account, but don't expect a solution soon for this (sorry it's not that I don't want it; contrary .. it's just my limited time).

[Scott]

I'm just saying that when Korg announced streaming from SSD for Kronos, I, as a possible user, expected the same to be the possible for user samples as well, as it only seemed to be a logical thing to be able to do. But that wasn't the case, which made me somewhat disappointed. In my opinion it would've been better if the release of Kronos was prolonged just to add those features and make it better from the get go.

Let's say that, by the time Korg got that feature working properly, it was, say August 2012... a pretty reasonable guess, since that's how long it took. Do you really think it would be better if the Kronos simply did not exist until they had it "all right" by that measure, and simply did not ship it until now? While I imagine this would have been wonderful news for Yamaha and Roland, I'm not so sure that would have been a good move for Korg who, after all, did have a perfectly good, usable instrument to offer in the mean time, that apparently thousands of people have purchased and enjoyed.

I think it's interesting that they didn't announce that this was in the works, though, even though it might have prompted more people to buy in the mean time. But it's smart that they didn't, because we know what happens if you announce your intent to do something but aren't yet sure how long it will take to deliver. People were up in arms that the promised editor took so long. So they were probably wise not to sell units to people promising user streaming until they actually had it working.

and this is the retail price, not the price Korg would buy them at. [speaking of what you pay for RAM and drives]

Computer components are unusual things... they have very tight margins. Unless you make them yourself or buy them in Apple quantities, most companies can't buy them much cheaper than you or I can. And then on the other side of the equation, Korg has to recoup their R&D and support their business on sales of far fewer units. Apple's R&D and fabrication on an iPad can be amortized over millions of units sold; keyboards perhaps in the tens of thousands. So Korg buys a component, builds it into a device, probably needs to perhaps double its cost, and sells to a distributor who adds probably another 20%, who sells to a dealer who adds probably another 40%... so that component that you can buy for $100 probably costs over $300 by the time you buy it inside a keyboard from your local dealer.

But of course, when you buy a Kronos, you're not buying a bunch of components, you're buying a whole integrated system designed to work reliably and in a way that enhances your studio workflow or performance capabilities, and with their own unique sounds and capabilities. That's the value Korg is asking you to pay for, and if you don't see that as justifying its price for your purposes, then by all means, assemble your own system!