European prices and release dates from Musikmesse???

[GregC]

Greg,

this is a silly game I have been watching since years.

Japanese music companies have only one partner they take serious: that's their US team, normally responsible for the whole worldwide marketing after production, and often also the most influential people for concept and feedback. They are often nice guys, but you are right that it is not their task to care about Europe. It's a genuine Japanese task to do that!

But: According to my experience, feedback to a local musical instrument representative of a Japanese company, any local feedback, even happening in a country like Germany or France, with high economic power, is about as relevant to Japanese managements as "a rice bag tumbling down anywhere in China", as a German saying goes. I could tell you some anecdotes, including confidential experiences of local reps of various Japanese companies, about this strange phenomenon. This kind of information politics, and in general treating European partners like thin air, is something which I personally won't swallow any longer under any conditions.

However much I like the Kronos, I'm really getting annoyed meanwhile.
Give me two more weeks of being treated like that, and you can bet that I will buy ANY alternative available, but no longer stand in a row of Europeans being treated like idiots or havenots. This world is full of alternatives, and if someone doesn't want me as a customer, I just buy something else from someone else.

We are not amused ...

Hey Jim, we live in a world of Internet gotta have it all now. I have worked for three separate international corporations in my career.

I do understand there there might be an overemphasis on the US market-
given it does most the sales, units, etc, etc. But thats capitalism for you !
Its almost always about the green stuff.

I have travelled to Japan and have the utmost respect for the country, people and the culture. Its possible that the culture might be careful about
possible disagreement. But I would not hold a Japan parent co responsible
for a variety of issues they have little or no control over, exchange rate, how their country distributors operate, etc, etc.

I also think Korg is very important to the MI. They are the smallest of the
" big 3 ". They simply cannot do it all, be all things to all people, be everywhere all the time. I think that is realistic.

[jimknopf]

Greg, thanks for your kind words!

I have always regarded communication as a very affordable pleasure, not dependant on the size of a company. I can live with problems and delays, but if there is something I won't accept, ever, it is a fundamental lack of communication and respect towards your customers or potential customers.

So if that's capitalism, I have my own rules of dealing with it, and vote with my money. I'm just one and not important. But at least I am consequent and live according to my own rules.

[Zeroesque]

Greg,

this is a silly game I have been watching since years.

Japanese music companies have only one partner they take serious: that's their US team, normally responsible for the whole worldwide marketing after production, and often also the most influential people for concept and feedback. They are often nice guys, but you are right that it is not their task to care about Europe. It's a genuine Japanese task to do that!

But: According to my experience, feedback to a local musical instrument representative of a Japanese company, any local feedback, even happening in a country like Germany or France, with high economic power, is about as relevant to Japanese managements as "a rice bag tumbling down anywhere in China", as a German saying goes. I could tell you some anecdotes, including confidential experiences of local reps of various Japanese companies, about this strange phenomenon. This kind of information politics, and in general treating European partners like thin air, is something which I personally won't swallow any longer under any conditions.

However much I like the Kronos, I'm really getting annoyed meanwhile.
Give me two more weeks of being treated like that, and you can bet that I will buy ANY alternative available, but no longer stand in a row of Europeans being treated like idiots or havenots. This world is full of alternatives, and if someone doesn't want me as a customer, I just buy something else from someone else.

We are not amused ...

If any of this were true, we wouldn't have professional arranger-type keyboards, and the V-Accordion would simply not exist. All this conjecture and subsequent animosity toward Korg must be the "silly game" that you're talking about. I highly doubt many companies communicate with you like Korg does. What product do you own that came with personal responses about features from the developers before it came out? Gimme a break. Why do you berate the guys from Korg that are cool enough to give personal responses to user questions w/ something that they can't control: pricing and availability on another continent? Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. Why does anyone owe you anything? Where does this sense of entitlement come from?

[danatkorg]

this is a silly game I have been watching since years.

Japanese music companies have only one partner they take serious: that's their US team, normally responsible for the whole worldwide marketing after production,

Speaking as someone who's worked for Korg for 20 years, that's simply incorrect. I don't know a single Japanese MI company for which this is the case. Marketing is done first and foremost by the Japanese headquarters, and then adapted locally by the distributor. The USA distributor may help with the English version, which is often what's provided for translation into other languages (since English, like it or not, is the current "lingua franca" - irony acknowledged).

At Korg, the guy in charge of all distribution outside of Japan (including USA, Europe, Asia, etc.) is Australian, not American.

and often also the most influential people for concept and feedback.

That may sometimes be true, depending on the product line, in conjunction with feedback from other English-speaking countries (such as the UK and Australia), due to ease of communication - since English appears to be the most popular second language in Japan.

However, for Korg in particular, note that:

* The "MPB" team traditionally responsible for both sound development and feature-vetting for major workstations is relatively small, and includes people from Germany, Italy, and Canada as well as the USA and Japan.

* A large portion of Korg's keyboards, including the PA series, the SV-1, and some of the digital pianos, are developed more or less entirely in Italy and have a strong orientation towards the European market.

I hope this helps to clarify things.

Best regards,

Dan

[danatkorg]

If any of this were true, we wouldn't have professional arranger-type keyboards, and the V-Accordion would simply not exist.

Exactly.

[ScoobyDoo555]

Many thanks for this input Dan - but I do have one question (I don't even know if you can answer it!) -

Why no noise from anybody about Kronos then?

Even if it's delayed, to be told this fact would address 99% of those questioning what is going on (myself included)

Dan

[jimknopf]

Zeroesque, I post my concern here, hoping that those guys from Korg US, who probably have much more direct connections to Korg Japan, than any local rep in Germany will ever have, give the mother company some feedback about the European situation.

I do NOT expect any of them to make announcements for Europe.

I DID expect clear statements at Musikmesse, after this was announced at Namm and subsequently confirmed by Korg Germany, by two big German resellers and at a Kronos introduction in the Netherlands.

You probably find it normal and fair to allow US citizens to order a Kronos at a fixed price since January, while Europeans aren't even regarded important enough to tell them anything at Musikmesse, nearly 4 months later.

And yes, I feel very much entitled to critisize that.

[danatkorg]

Many thanks for this input Dan - but I do have one question (I don't even know if you can answer it!) -

Why no noise from anybody about Kronos then?

Even if it's delayed, to be told this fact would address 99% of those questioning what is going on (myself included)

Dan

No noise about what aspect of the Kronos?

If your question is whether or not the product itself is delayed in comparison to my last posts on the subject (not too long ago), the answer is no. I can't answer re anything else, such as transportation.

- Dan

[ScoobyDoo555]

Thank you Dan,

You have actually answered my question.

I'm sure you can appreciate why everybody is so "on top" of this product - you and Korg have changed the game......

and we as customers want to be part of it.

[erikv]

According to the internetsite of a dutch retailer we will have to wait until the end of June before Korg will announce european prices of the Kronos.

First delivery is expected in juli/august....

[jimknopf]

Hi Dan, I read your and other intermediate posting only after my last post, so I couldn't react directly.

I always appreciate your calm way of discussing, even when I am in a mood of irritation as right now.

My impression of how important the US departments of the "big three" from Japan are, are no US insider knowledge like yours. They come from some private feedback I got from European reps working for these companies. They were quite articulate concerning the sometimes frustrating small impact of local reps feeback towards the Japanese mother companies. And some of them told me that the best chance for such feedback would come from US reps which do not just help selling (like other worldwide org sites), but are often involved in whole development lines, like you and others for the Kronos.

I don't want to repeat my point, as I think it is clear.
Be sure I know you can't tell anything concerning Europe.
But it would be really useful if the message arrived in Japan, that "the natives are becoming restless" over here in Europe, and from some talk I know I am not the only one who is quite irritated about the complete absense of Korg news and more powerful Korg presence at Muskmesse.

I have no feedback connection to Japan, perhaps you do.

[T7]

First delivery is expected in juli/august....

Meh.

Sweetwater has been projecting June delivery since I ordered mine here in The States months ago. I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

It could be worse. Imagine pre-ordering a JB Solaris when they were announced in 2007.

[RKfan]

According to the internetsite of a dutch retailer we will have to wait until the end of June before Korg will announce european prices of the Kronos.

First delivery is expected in juli/august....

Which is exactly the same time the JP-80 is going to be in the shops.......

In that time Yamaha may have announced the XL... Same s**t just in a bigger box .... (100 keys and a free USB memeory stick)....

The opportunity to "Change the game", just got a bit more complicated.

Has an opportunity been missed (still think the concept of the Kronos is excellent - can't say reality till the Autumn - is there still time to release Karma 3.0)?

[ozy]

I can't understand the time-frenzy, just like I couldn't undesrtand pre-ordering a not-yet-tested item.

What matters is a) that the kronos is finished and the possible bugs seen in the demos are fixed by release time, b) that the price is good when I eventually decide to test it and buy it.

If the effing thing isn't ready or available, who cares for a provisional price to be announced?

And: European prices HAVE been announced: demonstrators told them clearly.

And the delivery time is OBVIOUSLY elastic, not least because of the ONGOING earthquake situation in Japan.

But who cares? Ine month? Who cares? Why?

Ok, ok: the excitment of a new instrument. Ok. But: a heathed debate about it?!?

Finally: do three months, and the fact that Kronos goes into the shops BEFORE or AFTER the juno80, change the relative and absolute quality of the two instruments?!?

How?

Will someone change his mind - much less his setup - because the juno is in the shop and the kronos is due two weeks later?

My point is:

The WHOLE Kronos debate has been markedly IRRATIONAL and HISTERIC.

I'm am NOT surprised that it often degenerated in name-calling, religion or political rant. It was hysteric from the start.

All of this has NOTHING to do with an instruments. This is herd behaviour, venting, and web-frenzy.

The other times I responded to all this by making fun of the threads and joking and disrupting them with funny pictures.

This time I won't, because obvioulsy I didn't make myself clear.

This time I just ask politely:

are there really two separate threads full of angst and quarrel about the exact date of a price announcement which has already been done, and which matters little anyway until the Kronos is available??

[vincenttan]

The price of the Kronos 61 in the US will be $3000 at sweetwater. This would result in about E 2100 here. However due to taxes etc it will be higher, but I never heard of a product that will cost more in E than in US$ (if you look at the value after the currency sign).

If Korg would make it more than E 3000 than a small amount of people would try to import it from sweetwater; the result will probably look for a competitor or not buy a new synth at all. They will lose a lot of customers this way. However, I'm sure Korg will make the price similar in Europe than in the US, meaning it will be probably between around E 2500; at least that is the price I would be willing to pay, knowing that it's only worth E 2.100 (by importing it directly excl. taxes/import price of around E 400 I guess).

Wel there are more shops who happened to ask the dollar price in euro's.
or sell it for less then.

I'm verry ashamed and pissed that Korg agrees with that customers get robbed this way.

The US market and europe markets are different.
To ship one from de US to the Netherlands cost me a lot.

I tought the euro rate was good so I started counting the cost.
And I'm not happy at all.

Second thing I'm curently dealing with is Why should I pay more for a synth that's also more of a revival of past synths and combine them in to a new synth.

Smart yess price/ quality/performances is a NO!!!!
Why I still stay on the MOTIF XF is obvious cost me less than and has kinda the same futures.

A lot of u are excited but the game changesw only if they come up with a good price and super support.

Watching R.Formidoni I learned a lot about the KRONOS but the SEQUENZER PART and SAMPLI?NG section is still covered poor.

If Kronos is a workstation then why is there only room for its live possibilities?
And will this be a synth for a few among us.

I'm not hating but I'm not gonna pay a price that doesn't matches the expectations and quality!
The Korg M3 and Yamaha Motif XF are together with the Kronos the 3 synths I'm following and to purchase soooooooon!

But
Kronos gets the benefit of doubt but depends on hw much €