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StephenKay wrote: Software patents are absurd? What's absurd about someone spending years developing some innovative software that does something unique, that doesn't exist, and then patenting it, after which everyone else can go "but...but....but...sputter....that's so obvious!" ?

Patents that are absurbt are people pattenting ideas without being able create them in real time.. This goes for both Software as hardware patents..

Next to that Companies licensing the ideas developed by others, like the people trying to get pattent on linking things through the internet, give patents a bad name..

But for honest people like you that have created something orriginal (like KARMA) software patents are the right way to go.


Sad thing is the people making most money from pattents are the lawyers...

Kontrol49 wrote: When I was looking to purchase a Moss board for the Extreme a few years ago,Secondhand Z1's were actually going cheaper than the retail price of the Moss,so I opted for a full blown synth rather than a Moss circuit board....

Even better! I had a bit different experience as I couldn't get a MOSS board at the time But, like you, I got a Z1 and.. it's a sonic galaxy

vEddY wrote:I got a Z1 and.. it's a sonic galaxy

Good to see that there are still some Z1s here in Zagreb

HrastProgrammer wrote: Good to see that there are still some Z1s here in Zagreb

Actually, a lot of people I know used Tritons with MOSS, and - back in those days - Trinity with MOSS, as well. Everyone says that it's "got that certain character". I know it does - I've been using it since... forever

But Z1's are awfully rare in general, especially in our country I seem to remember that somebody told me that maybe there's something like five or six of them here? They're becoming a rare valuable item We should hold on to them!

vEddY wrote:But Z1's are awfully rare in general, especially in our country I seem to remember that somebody told me that maybe there's something like five or six of them here?

I don't know but the number is low, for sure. And additional boards are even more rare - I am searching for DI-TRI digital I/F board for years without luck.

BTW, I own two of them, both with DSPB-Z1 expansions and at some point I actually owned *three* ... Used one just to pull out 6-voice board and sold the remaining as a 6-voice Z1.

Although Z1 is not my main synth, I like it very much because MOSS can produce many beautiful and unique sounds ...

HrastProgrammer wrote:Used one just to pull out 6-voice board and sold the remaining as a 6-voice Z1.

...and that one is at Don Solaris.


Also speaking about MOSS, a friend of mine (also in Zagreb) has a Prophecy. Seems like the whole Croatian contingency of Z1/Prophecy is located in our capital!

StephenKay wrote:If you solve the problem first, you win.

Win what? I didn't know that there is some competition.
Sorry, but this doesn't make sense. No one should be able to forbid other people to solve a problem based only on random chance of encountering it earlier than others.

EvilDragon wrote:Seems like the whole Croatian contingency of Z1/Prophecy is located in our capital!

I am wondering who will be the first one with Kronos

Ha, not me, I intend to get it when I save the money up - somewhere closer to the end of next year sounds fine to me.

Bachus wrote:But for honest people like you that have created something orriginal (like KARMA) software patents are the right way to go.

Agreed.

I remember a trumpet sound i used on moss, it sounded so good, i used to get chills, i never got that from a sample based trumpet sound,ever
so if kronos ever gets a new os upgrade, how about at least the brass model.

HrastProgrammer wrote: I don't know but the number is low, for sure. And additional boards are even more rare - I am searching for DI-TRI digital I/F board for years without luck.
BTW, I own two of them, both with DSPB-Z1 expansions and at some point I actually owned *three* ... Used one just to pull out 6-voice board and sold the remaining as a 6-voice Z1. Although Z1 is not my main synth, I like it very much because MOSS can produce many beautiful and unique sounds ...

Hahaha, yeah, I heard about some people doing that, as well And I know what you mean - expansion boards are no-go. And MOSS is still rather expensive as an add-on card these days, still goes for $500ish on ebay which is insane

I was actually entertaining the thought of re-packaging Z1 in a rack a couple of years ago, that would have been funny....

StephenKay wrote:

Zeroesque wrote:

X-Trade wrote:Thanks for the insight. I find the licensing and patents somewhat confusing at times. There are technologies that are blatantly used without and sign of licensing at times in fairly high profile products. Other times I can't quite understand what is so special about it and the concept seems straightforward to me, yet someone has managed to 'put a price on it' so to speak.

Software patents are a mess at best. Personally, I find them absurd.

This is a favorite quote of mine, from Douglas Adam's "Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency": (if you like his Hitch Hiker's series, you'd like this series as well...)

"It is a rare mind indeed that can render the hitherto non-existent blindingly obvious."

You can apply this to any case of "but that is so obvious, why did it get a patent?" It's always "obvious", in hindsight. The paperclip, the staple, they were obvious in hindsight. We've progressed a bit since those days.

Software patents are absurd? What's absurd about someone spending years developing some innovative software that does something unique, that doesn't exist, and then patenting it, after which everyone else can go "but...but....but...sputter....that's so obvious!" ?

The software patent issue is so huge that it can't possibly be debated in general here. From my casual interest in it over the years, I'd say that most programming authorities seem to be on the side of no software patents. Carmack, as Megakazbek has said, is a pretty vocal opponent, and backs up his words by releasing all of his game engines as open source once the licensees have moved on to newer tech. He also makes way more bread than all of us combined with his software.

The quote you have there is, IMO, a little precious. I think something more appropriate could be, "If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" (many attributions, Issac Newton, here).

For all of us, what if Xerox PARC enforced patents? What if Bell Labs did the same...or Tim Berners Lee? We couldn't even have this discussion on the web, and would just be getting used to controlling windows with mice (amongst a million other things).

For Karma Lab, you would have had to have written your own language and compiler before even beginning. Now, imagine if Peter Gannon were a patent troll? What if Yamaha's lawyers called you everyday about arpeggiators? Would you be around? Or would the cost of fighting such nonsense be so great as to crush your ideas before you had a chance to attempt them?

FWIW, I can't wait to start experimenting w/ KARMA when I get my Kronos. As a developer and musician, I truly have the utmost respect for what you do. Please don't confuse that issue.

I'll buy you a beer if I see you at NAMM next year!

vEddY wrote:I was actually entertaining the thought of re-packaging Z1 in a rack a couple of years ago, that would have been funny....

Hehe, that would be either very wide or very high rack, depending on how would you like to arrange boards containing knobs and switches (3 of them, IIRC ... board with controls on the left, center board with LCD and board on the right). Mainboard, 6-voiceboard and other PCBs can be arranged horizontally inside a case.

But it could be done ...

Synthoid wrote:MOSS is dead... let it go.

The ONLY thing from Korg that actually its price goes up every day,
it curently sellf for whooping 750-800$ and still the most wanted thing.