Kronos nylon

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:52 pm

With all respect, most audience is very easy to fool. Most non-musical people only care about singing and only when the drums or bass is absent, they will notice it. Of course it's not this black and white, but I guess everybody who has been playing live and made mistakes and afterwards asking to people if they heard it know most people didn't hear any mistake at all (unless one would stop play suddenly or play in a wrong key).

Even most band members wouldn't hear instantly the difference between one generation of synths (i.e. Triton Extreme or M3), the difference in Kronos is higher, but most audience will not care if you play with a Kronos or M1. Luckily, most joy for playing live is for yourself and if you hear good sounds, you know it was worth the money.

jorgemncardoso · Post by **jorgemncardoso** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:53 pm

Yes, totally agree, if a good guitar sound is musical enough to give the illusion of a real guitar and sound's good then it's great, but that's my point, it gives the "illusion" that is a real guitar cause it sound's good, but that can be done with a lot of keyboards, even older ones. Hey i can do a very good sampled guitar sound out of my trinity and the trinity is about 15 years old. So the point here is why complaining that the Motif guitars are better than the Kronos or any thing else? They are all sampled guitars no matter what! About 85 to 90% of a listening (non musician) audience will not tell the difference between a good sampled guitar, and they care even less if someone is playing a good guitar sound on a synth or playing a real guitar, as long as it sound's good. However my main point was, if we know all this what's the point of complaining about the kronos guitars not being as good as motif's guitars our any other sampled guitars? There is no point, they are all sampled guitars in the end, most of the audience won't notice or care, most of the musicians will obviously notice no matter how good the sample is.
Take @ddavilyx demo on youtube a few posts above, the sound is great, very good technique playing the guitar on keys, well played too, but even if i didn't know that was a sampled guitar played on a keyboard in advance i could tell it from the very first vibrato, i mean a real guitar vibrato or bend in unmistakable, you can disguise it in a mix, but if you listen to it carefully you will notice it's not a real guitar, no matter how good the sample is.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:05 pm

Of course sound is very important, and the reason why I would by the Kronos is mainly for the CX3, the 'clearity' of the sound and the sonic possibilities (for fun too).

What I think is even more important is the ease of programming: 12 IFXs, 16 timbres, touch screen, lots of knobs and sliders (altough I prefer my Behringer).

And more and more synth sounds is getting more a subjective matter than objective, since (almost) any synth sounds good nowadays. Of course if you have multiple brands you can pick the best of all, but even with only one synth it's hard to go wrong (assuming it's not a dedicated synth for a special sound).

Vlad_77 · Post by **Vlad_77** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:30 pm

Illusion is a powerful - and liberating - phenomenon. I am also a professional sleight of hand artist. People KNOW that what I do isn't really "magic" in the Merlyn sense, but, they suspend disbelief and are shocked that I can make solid objects like coins pass through their hands for instance.

What does this have to do with music? EVERYTHING. Our music evokes mental and emotional places and states of being for people. Audiences want good music and they really are not concerned if a musician is using a Kronos or XF, or Fantom, or a ukulele to make it. The MUSIC transports people, NOT the instrument. Before the Kronos I had used the UltimateGrand patch on the X8 for my piano work in live situations - and for recording. People would say, "Vlad, that was a powerful piece of music you performed!" They never have said, "gee Vlad, that piano sounded terribly compressed. You should buy a Steinway."

For composing purposes I am quite happy with the guitars in the synths/workstations I have that EMULATE guitars. When I take ideas to the band, the guitarists listen to the outline of my idea then apply the guitar magic that I cannot.

I believe that the OP claims to be able to play guitar. He also stated that it is a poor excuse to say that he should PLAY guitar for guitar parts when he has a workstation. Actually, I think the fact that you CAN play guitar is the BEST reason to NOT whine and whinge about the quality of guitars in a workstation.

I listened to Gargamel's music on that very inspiring video as did a few friends. These friends are musicians and their response - and mine - was, "what a BEAUTIFUL composition."

To the OP: if you are convinced that the XF works for YOU, then I couldn't be happier. Call me "butt hurt" but I am not man. You see, what is important to me is that people make MUSIC. I can be just as awestruck listening to anything from a symphony to a bluegrass band, to revisiting The Beatles and everything else I can listen to and learn from and most importantly, music as a means of escape! But your early posts marked you when you stated to people that after listening to sounds on Motifator that they will return the Kronos. Dude that is simply ludicrous. I listened to your music and you are VERY gifted. Why not concentrate on what you BEST - making music - as opposed to slamming whatever instrument musicians choose to play to express themselves? It gets you and us nowhere rather quickly.

It is completely cool and accurate to point out strengths and vulnerabilities among instruments but it is decidedly NOT cool to determine others' needs. Pay my rent, buy my food, put fuel in my car, fund my moving to Holland, pay for my PhD, and only THEN can you determine my needs. In the meantime brother, make music and be as happy with your XF and other gear as I am happy with mine and all here are happy with theirs.

There are two major fora to which I belong which are VERY tolerant of intelligent debate: Korg Forums and Cunka.com (for Kurzweil). The other two I belong to are at times less than tolerant. I only own one Yamaha - a fun old TG-33 so there is no real need for me to join Motifator as the information I would glean there would only be helpful if I wanted to purchase a Motif so I cannot speak to the climate there as I have never been there. Tolerance is based upon accepting the fact that NO workstation can do it all. The topic was wisely moved to "other gear" or whatever it's called, but, to me, the real shining posts concerning other gear were Bruce and RonF's balanced comparisons when they reviewed the JP80. Neither of these musicians stated such nonsense as "as soon as your hear the JP80, you will return your [insert Korg instrument here].

So in the end you like the Yamaha guitars better than those in Kronos - COOL!! Guess what my friend? Few if any of us are, to use your colorful verbiage, "butt hurt." I would wager that if you polled people here, most if not all would say, "hey man, I am HAPPY that YOU are happy."

Sorry for the homily all, but, I would offer that what is important is how we can get what is in our minds' ears translated into aural illusion-reality.

Ahimsa,
Vlad

ddavilyx · Post by **ddavilyx** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:55 pm

JPROBERTLA, too much chat people. I've uploaded my guitar pieces on YouTube and the rest of you guys haven't. C'mon, lets hear it. Upload your guitar sounds so I can hear it!

Hey everybody ... I don't care weather you're a guitarist or not, you have a guitarist or not, you will hire a guitarist or not ...i don't give a darn guys. Let's hear it people. Yes this thread is getting old, I know... but I am finally gaining victory because in the end, everyone is settling for either hiring a guitarist or play the guitar yourself. I can play everything on the keyboard because I'm a pianist and some people aren't. Some people are keyboardists and there's a big difference. Enough chatting. let's hear it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bKs600g2Xg

madbeatzyo111 · Post by **madbeatzyo111** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:41 pm

Ddavilyx, I don't think anybody here cares as much as you do about comparing the guitars on both keyboards. Therefore since you have access to both an XF and Kronos, you should take that same guitar sequence on the XF and play it back on your Kronos. Then post the results.

Otherwise, maybe it would be best to post this on motifator instead, where you will get the kind of response you want. People here don't seem to care too much about the XF, sorry.

On the other hand, if you want to discuss the JP80, we'd be happy to do so

ddavilyx · Post by **ddavilyx** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:46 pm

madbeatzyo111, I don't care that you don't care about my opinions and facts. You don't care about the guitars because in the Kronos, there "is" nothing to care about. Get me? Years from now when Korg finally decides to invest more into their guitars, you guys will remember back to this thread and how yall made me a troll and a jerk. You will finally know the quality that I'm talking about. All I'm saying is that yall won't post your own recordings... because you know it won't compare. C'mon, where's yours? Where is it... I still don't see it.

madbeatzyo111 · Post by **madbeatzyo111** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:32 pm

Actually I seem to be the only who does care. And I've defended you in the past and tried to help you get your point across better in this thread.

So please consider what I suggested. Since you have both the XF and Kronos, play that guitar sequence on both and post them. Then everyone can make an honest assessment.

Otherwise, this thread belongs where it was until yesterday...dead.

ddavilyx · Post by **ddavilyx** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:48 am

okay. I'll do that.

jorgemncardoso · Post by **jorgemncardoso** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:58 am

With all honesty it's almost impossible sometimes to have an actual mature and balanced discussion of opinions and ideas with some people here so i'll just say what i have to say and then i'll shut up on this thread cause i really have better things to do with my time (like work and making music) than sitting here discussing stuff like mine "is bigger than yours" kinder garden talk.

@ddavilyx if you didn't get the point of what people are saying here i'll recap: Nobody gives a crap in the end if the guitar sample on the motif is a little (or a lot for that matter) better than the one in Kronos! I don't, and apparently a lot of people don't either. I personally don't give a crap if your guitar sound is better than mine or if you play better than me or not, and for your information i am a pianist who also plays keyboard's, guitars, bass, drums and harmonica, been playing since i was 5, i'm 38 so if you can make a sampled guitar sound better than mine on the keyboard, fine mate, great for you, i really don't give a crap. I'm not a professional musician, i'm an enthusiast and play for passion and expressing my self, and i'm also really serious about my music even if i'm not a pro.

I realy don't have patience for ego filled star wannabe's, your statement's really speak for them selfs:

"... but I am finally gaining victory because in the end, everyone is settling for either hiring a guitarist or play the guitar yourself."

Is that a victory?? Wow, good for you mate, you've won!!

"All I'm saying is that yall won't post your own recordings... because you know it won't compare. "

Personally i really don't care

"C'mon, where's yours? Where is it... I still don't see it."

Humm... kind of reminds me of the discussions i had with my brother when i was 10...

Sorry for the sarcasm, it's really not my style but it's so that you understand how childish you are being about this matter.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:26 am

I just checked ddavilyx's youtube video. He gives it a decent effort, but it still doesn't sound like a guitarist. The first vibrato is an instant give-away, even if you think the basic samples/sounds are convincing.
Hate the fret noises too. I understand why they put them in, but if it doesn't sound real anyway, why add unwanted noise that you then spend time eq-ing away?

I still say for ACTUAL guitar stuff, get a guitar player, or learn to play yourself. It's actually not hard to do some basic chords and it can really diversify your sound/music. And if you need something more advanced, it's not like guitarists are hard to get, or difficult to record.

Guitar is probably the least important sound in a synth for me. Off the top of my head I can't think of one that I care less about.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:56 am

SanderXpander, Completely agree with you for live purposes.

But there's other purposes where fake guitars are useful. For example, when I do band arrangements and playalongs for band members before rehearsals, I just need that fake lead or rhythm guitar to give a plausible impression of the overall arrangement.

And while I get by with some onboard nylons in the Kronos without problems (no matter at all for me if a Yamaha or a JP 80

has even better ones), I DO have problems finding halfway authentic sounding electric rhythm guitar sounds, and I completely fail to find even one single useseable lead guitar sound.

This just looks to me like the "outdated corner of HD-1" (besides now higly redundant Piano and EPiano sounds in HD-1). No big deal, but Korg should just update these kinds of sounds in the Kronos from my view.

Mystic38 · Post by **Mystic38** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:56 am

I do not understand what you are after..

I have complimented your playing, I have complimented the sampling.. I have said it would sound good in a mix or out live.

You keep saying they sound realistic.. they dont...

ddavilyx wrote:Mystic38, go back and listen to my demo on youtube. It just got even better. And these sounds are not really third party. They are the same waveforms.

Mystic38 · Post by **Mystic38** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:57 am

This thread should have been closed a month ago so let me help...

wait for it.....

the Jupiter 80 sounds better!

JPROBERTLA · Post by **JPROBERTLA** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:15 pm

ddavilyx: Chat? I have been reading this forum since it formed and only recently made a few posts - maybe 6 or 7 and all of them substantive. This particular thread is nothing but chat, " beating a dead horse" type chat. If guitars sounds are that important to anyone, maybe they should learn to play the guitar. Context is the key for keyboard guitars; they will never replace the real thing. I don't need to post guitar sounds to satisfy anyone, the only person I need to satisfy is myself.

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