Next arranger model - NEW DESIGN vs UPGRADE

[usaraiya]

Frustrations Abound! And quite rightly so.
All we can do is wait for Korg to come out with either a brilliant new system or a re-hash of the same ol', same ol'.
I think that COVID was responsible for the delay from 5-7 years, not that they are getting a beast ready, I hope they are, though.

Uday

[Bachus]

Like i wrote earlier, If there is NO Better handling of DATA TRANSFER/LOADING TIME Etc, And If there is no better SF2 IMPORT like K2, If there is no god resolution on the Screen, If there is no new ROM SOUNDS, I Mean NEW not token from Just 3X/4X/Pa2X etc, If there is only one INSERT FX, If there is ONLY 15K Samples, If there is nothing they offer for making USER SOUNDS From PC/MAC, If there is limitation for anything, I,m OUT!
I will hang on with my 4X and My Laptop/MAC.
Because 7 years old 4x, and the updated 4X with some minor things is like a joke for me.

Look at the other Brands, they are in time, FAST, And Smart.
There is still Buggs in 4X that they did not fixed, And now they are making a new Unit again, before they even fix the problems with the 4X,

Sorry but i,m not that rich.

Don’t you think Korg Italy realizes this and thats the reason we haven’t seen an update in 7 years compared to the usual 5 years..

Moving to other hardware takes time..

Sure, a change to a new hardware would be great and actually to be expected.

Still, he's right when he says that Korg should have fixed the well-known old bugs as well.

Not fixing the bugs in the operating system is bad style.
Especially when you've had seven years.

Did you ever hear about Spaghetticode?

Thats what happens if you keep adding changes to old software..


Thats why starting all over again, might be the only solution to prevent those bugs from entering the new instrument

[Blazenko]

Don’t you think Korg Italy realizes this and thats the reason we haven’t seen an update in 7 years compared to the usual 5 years..

Moving to other hardware takes time..

Sure, a change to a new hardware would be great and actually to be expected.

Still, he's right when he says that Korg should have fixed the well-known old bugs as well.

Not fixing the bugs in the operating system is bad style.
Especially when you've had seven years.

Did you ever hear about Spaghetticode?

Thats what happens if you keep adding changes to old software..


Thats why starting all over again, might be the only solution to prevent those bugs from entering the new instrument

Understand. So if you program a new feature but no one wanted that feature (e.g. KAOSS) then that's fine.

However, if software errors are to be corrected, then this becomes spaghetti code...

Well, the Pa4X's operating system won't have millions of program lines of code.

[Biggles]

Spaghetti Code.

Surely a Modular system is the way to go and a full rewrite would not be necessary every time a bug was found.

Does anyone know what is the Pa4X OS actually is?

[Bachus]

Spaghetti Code.

Surely a Modular system is the way to go and a full rewrite would not be necessary every time a bug was found.

Does anyone know what is the Pa4X OS actually is?

Its some form of Unix deep under the hood…

There is quite a few versions around intended for embeded software.. like the pa4x

[karmathanever]

However, if software errors are to be corrected, then this becomes spaghetti code...
Well, the Pa4X's operating system won't have millions of program lines of code.

Not true. If the original design has been intelligently planned (as mentioned above, "modular") then fixing bugs should never turn it into spaghetti code.
Spaghetti-code software is mostly due to absence of good design and planning. Korg (or any other keyboard developer) would be totally out of business if they fell into that category.
If Korg work on enhancing a current "PA4X well planned design", then we'll end up with a good product (hopefully with modern hardware) - the alternative is re-design/re-write.
With our Korg PAs (1,2,3&4) we have very intelligent products emanating from a massive amount of design and development work.
Assuming that Korg do write well-planned software (which I totally believe is the case), their hardest development component is UAT (User Acceptance Testing).
Like WINDOWS, MAC OSX, Ketron, Yamaha, Roland, Nord etc...etc... the UAT development component is the hardest and most complex.

Example:
Imagine you designed and created the PA4X keyboard (or Kronos, PA4X, Genos).
It is finished and in front of you but it requires comprehensive testing before you pump it out for mass production and distribution.
Try and write comprehensive test plan for this keyboard.
Whether your plan is 10 pages or 10,000 pages long you will have missed something and there will be bugs.

This is why we end up with bugs in most, if not all complex software products.

We already have incredibly well developed and designed keyboards (Yamaha, Korg, Ketron etc..)

I have complete confidence in the current keyboard manufacturers to be spaghetti-free

Take care and enjoy what you have

[D575]

Perhaps the remedy would be a much more comprehensive Alpha and Beta testing process as Korg do seem to have a reputation for being a little top-heavy when it comes to bugs.....The PA4X replacements journey will be very telling to see if korg have tried to address this... of course if sales have been strong for PA4X and continue with its replacement then they may not feel the need to do anything differently than they have already done previously...which will continue to frustrate many round here.

[filipe_l]

We already have incredibly well developed and designed keyboards (Yamaha, Korg, Ketron etc

Ketron ? Well developed ? Really ?

[Korghelper]

The problem isn’t that there are bugs. There are ALWAYS bugs. No matter how much alpha and beta testing you do. A product is complex is this, along with the myriad of ways it can be used, comprehensive testing is impossible.

But unfixed bugs that linger for years is a major problem. The problem may indeed be spaghetti code, because you would think that a specific bug in one specific area, if the software WAS modular, would only require a minor OS update to address. This is not what we see, beyond the initial few months of the project release. Well known and unfixed bugs remain untouched for years. That isn’t the sign of a modular design. We wait and wait, and wait, and some of them never get addressed.

Some of them remain unfixed even when major OS updates are released, adding brand new features. There comes a time when, especially after a seven year wait, if the manufacturer cannot design a brand new OS in that time span that fixes persistent problems, players are going to lose confidence in the product. If they DO go to a new OS, let us pray that it actually is modular this time around. Having to wait years for bug fixes is simply not good enough.

[eli125]

yes its cumming a 5x this year like march April

[eli125]

and confirmed a 88 key to

[karmathanever]

Ketron ? Well developed ? Really ?

Oh well, apologies then.. I've only ever heard good things about the Ketron arrangers - perhaps I am wrong.

[karmathanever]

yes its cumming a 5x this year like march April
..and confirmed a 88 key to..

OK, so here's the thing - who said that, when and where?
Still all rumours but we maybe getting closer...

[D575]

The problem isn’t that there are bugs. There are ALWAYS bugs. No matter how much alpha and beta testing you do. A product is complex is this, along with the myriad of ways it can be used, comprehensive testing is impossible.

But unfixed bugs that linger for years is a major problem. The problem may indeed be spaghetti code, because you would think that a specific bug in one specific area, if the software WAS modular, would only require a minor OS update to address. This is not what we see, beyond the initial few months of the project release. Well known and unfixed bugs remain untouched for years. That isn’t the sign of a modular design. We wait and wait, and wait, and some of them never get addressed.

Some of them remain unfixed even when major OS updates are released, adding brand new features. There comes a time when, especially after a seven year wait, if the manufacturer cannot design a brand new OS in that time span that fixes persistent problems, players are going to lose confidence in the product. If they DO go to a new OS, let us pray that it actually is modular this time around. Having to wait years for bug fixes is simply not good enough.

Korg management might wish to think that they are very logical, structured and rational, the sad fact is that we are all under the influence of Cognitive Biases which influence our thought processes in our day to day life including our professional work and I believe this is why we are covering this topic of bug's, past present and if patterns continue then into the future... If Korg have not already worked this out?.... This now requires a serious review with a extraordinary approach not recognised previously.

[Bachus]

Ketron ? Well developed ? Really ?

Oh well, apologies then.. I've only ever heard good things about the Ketron arrangers - perhaps I am wrong.

You where not wrong..

For a small Italian company they make remarkable products…. Altough don’t buy them at release, as just like Korg they cone with many bugs..

It takes them quite long to get things on an acceptable level, but keep naking them better and better during their lifespan

As said small company, so it all goes in many many small steps
They excel at the style and song part.. which makes their modules perfect partners for any workstation..