Behringer has a new synth

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:12 am

Spaceman3 you must go to crazy parties! I have never heard anything like a duck shaving before!

spaceman3 · Post by **spaceman3** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:35 am

Bertotti wrote:Spaceman3 you must go to crazy parties! I have never heard anything like a duck shaving before!

Only hard part is catching the duck.

amit · Post by **amit** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:07 am

It's nice for modders that some main sections are discrete, might be easy to
swap/change filters etc.

Broadwave · Post by **Broadwave** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:14 am

Jan1 wrote:The price has been rumored to be as low as $500

"We like to manage expectations"

Behringer teased us with a possible Odyssey clone /Mono Synth for around $500 - DeepMind is going to be considerably more. But it wouldn't surprise me if they have a single voice version in the works.

amit wrote:It's nice for modders that some main sections are discrete, might be easy to swap/change filters etc.

They may well be discrete, but not "modular" in design (think ARP modules) I don't fancy the idea of swapping out 12 VCFs

I've also just realized what it is about the name that's been bugging me...

Post by **Sharp** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:22 am

Question. Why are analog synths expensive?
Seems to me they should be far easier to manufacture than a VA.

Sharp.

aron · Post by **aron** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:37 am

I think they have to calibrate by hand. I did read that Behringer introduced auto-calibration in the DeepMind.
I would think this synth will be SMD. Because it's discrete, instead of one chip, there's a ton of transistors, capacitors and resistors - then I guess some controlling chips to auto calibrate.
I was really quite excited until I read it was a Juno 106 type clone as a start. Nothing wrong with the Juno, just not one I would start with. It will sound amazing with the DSP FX.

Synthoid · Post by **Synthoid** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:57 am

Kevin Nolan wrote:VERY exciting! Enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caMT4BYFCCk

Way too much talking... hardly any playing.

Broadwave · Post by **Broadwave** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:37 pm

Sharp wrote:Question. Why are analog synths expensive?
Seems to me they should be far easier to manufacture than a VA.
Sharp.

I've never understood this either - £3200 for the new Minimoog... Seriously? Even worse is the Custom Hartmann "Sledge" £20,000 for a VA synth!

I'm pretty hyped up about DM12, I just hope the price is competitive. £1000-£1500 and I'll be all over it

Broadwave · Post by **Broadwave** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:48 pm

Repost, Sorry.

amit · Post by **amit** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:58 pm

Sharp wrote:Question. Why are analog synths expensive?
Seems to me they should be far easier to manufacture than a VA.

Sharp.

Primarily because of labor costs as well as individual components.

In Analog (or partially solid state) each stage is a physical circuit with physical components that can be dirt cheap or quite costly.
so Manufacturing costs are close to same for each unit.
If you also substitute op-amps with their discrete counterparts (transistor networks) it's cost increases manyfolds.

Virtual analog usually are modelling/digital, using mostly chips (microprocessors) so the entire synth engine is built (code) and embedded inside the chip with an interface to communicate with input variables (knobs faders and baisc IO Circuitary ), you spend once on R&D , get the chip/code done, and can have the product easily mass-produced.

>>
Yes this may note be modular, but being discrete, there might be the potential to tap into different blocks (I/O) and put in a Ribbon cable and external PatchBoard. Cannot say for sure until I is see the Schematic and the board.

if it comes to around $500-$800 (In India, I just might get it if it's moddable.)

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:55 pm

Broadwave wrote:
Sharp wrote:Question. Why are analog synths expensive?
Seems to me they should be far easier to manufacture than a VA.
Sharp.
I've never understood this either - £3200 for the new Minimoog... Seriously? Even worse is the Custom Hartmann "Sledge" £20,000 for a VA synth!

I'm pretty hyped up about DM12, I just hope the price is competitive. £1000-£1500 and I'll be all over it

I'm very much looking forward to the arrival of my Minimoog (the first to be sold in Europe

). We'd have to go back into hours of debate to answer your question. I'll say it again in a nutshell - some instruments are, literally, superior instruments. The Minimoog is one of them and it will serve me very well. It has a richness of tone unparalleled in synthesis (again, _almost_ universal agreement on this, globally, so _not_ my opinion).

And to answer Sharp - I'm not sure if you're into electronics - but - no - it is far more difficult even today to design a stable analogue synth than a VA.

As for this one - Behringer are taking the bull by the horns. Roland have flat out refused to engage their stunning legacy in any sort of earnest way - to me Boutique are an insult to the intelligence of musicians. Here we have (albeit with only a 4-octave keyboard) what the Juno 106, JX80 and JX10 should have become. I know the Juno 106 inside out, and these guys have delivered the foundation of a 106 but with significant new features to deliver whay evry 106 user wanted - multiple DCOs, EGs and LFO's, for starters. There are 4 times the DCOs on this than a J106. So while I love the Minimoog and feel it's worth every penny of the asking price, this is a hugely compelling prospect too. The best of all worlds, and I'll happily pay whatever the going price for this is too. The price is not _that_ important to me - I don't 'get' griping over price unless it is truly outrageous - we all spend more on booze, petrol and indeed cars on a yearly basis and all of that is essentially throwing money away. Griping over the cost of a synth is akin to griping about your local coffee shop putting 20 pence or cents on a cup of coffee - you're outraged because of the change, but blow multiples of that in other ways on a daily basis. It's all a matter of priorities for most of us - these are all affordable, if it's important enough to you.

I cannot wait to get my hands on one (or two) of these.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:57 pm

Kevin Nolan wrote:
Broadwave wrote:
Sharp wrote:Question. Why are analog synths expensive?
Seems to me they should be far easier to manufacture than a VA.
Sharp.
I've never understood this either - £3200 for the new Minimoog... Seriously? Even worse is the Custom Hartmann "Sledge" £20,000 for a VA synth!

I'm pretty hyped up about DM12, I just hope the price is competitive. £1000-£1500 and I'll be all over it

I'm very much looking forward to the arrival of my Minimoog (the first to be sold in Europe ). We'd have to go back into hours of debate to answer your question. I'll say it again in a nutshell - some instruments are, literally, superior instruments. The Minimoog is one of them and it will serve me very well. It has a richness of tone unparalleled in synthesis (again, _almost_ universal agreement on this, globally, so _not_ my opinion).

And to answer Sharp - I'm not sure if you're into electronics - but - no - it is far more difficult even today to design a stable analogue synth than a VA.

As for this one - Behringer are taking the bull by the horns. Roland have flat out refused to engage their stunning legacy in any sort of earnest way - to me Boutique are an insult to the intelligence of musicians. Here we have (albeit with only a 4-octave keyboard) what the Juno 106, JX8P and JX10 should have become. I know the Juno 106 inside out, and these guys have delivered the foundation of a 106 but with significant new features to deliver whay evry 106 user wanted - multiple DCOs, EGs and LFO's, for starters. There are 4 times the DCOs on this than a J106. So while I love the Minimoog and feel it's worth every penny of the asking price, this is a hugely compelling prospect too. The best of all worlds, and I'll happily pay whatever the going price for this is too. The price is not _that_ important to me - I don't 'get' griping over price unless it is truly outrageous - we all spend more on booze, petrol and indeed cars on a yearly basis and all of that is essentially throwing money away. Griping over the cost of a synth is akin to griping about your local coffee shop putting 20 pence or cents on a cup of coffee - you're outraged because of the change, but blow multiples of that in other ways on a daily basis. It's all a matter of priorities for most of us - these are all affordable, if it's important enough to you.

I cannot wait to get my hands on one (or two) of these.

Post by **Sharp** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:00 pm

amit wrote:
Sharp wrote:Question. Why are analog synths expensive?
Seems to me they should be far easier to manufacture than a VA.

Sharp.
Primarily because of labor costs as well as individual components.

In Analog (or partially solid state) each stage is a physical circuit with physical components that can be dirt cheap or quite costly.
so Manufacturing costs are close to same for each unit.
If you also substitute op-amps with their discrete counterparts (transistor networks) it's cost increases manyfolds.

Virtual analog usually are modelling/digital, using mostly chips (microprocessors) so the entire synth engine is built (code) and embedded inside the chip with an interface to communicate with input variables (knobs faders and baisc IO Circuitary ), you spend once on R&D , get the chip/code done, and can have the product easily mass-produced.

Sorry, I still don't get it mainly because I know labor in China is cheap and not expensive.

As for the component costs, what actual components are expensive? Pots, resistors, sliders, capacitors and all manner of little components like that are dirty cheap. Only a few cent each.

What specifically drives up the cost is what I'd like to know. There's R&D, but what else. Just curious. I'm not thinking of Behringer specifically, I'm thinking Analogs in general.

Regards
Sharp.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:16 pm

The cost is in the design and the manufacturing process, both from a characterisation stand point but most especially regarding stability and reliability. Manufacturing costs for a discrete component piece of electronics is also more expensive that digital electronic circuits.

Given that this is a discrete component device, it clearly is the Chinese manufacturing that will keep costs down.

chilly7 · Post by **chilly7** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:34 pm

Sharp wrote:
amit wrote:
Sharp wrote:Question. Why are analog synths expensive?
Seems to me they should be far easier to manufacture than a VA.

Sharp.
Primarily because of labor costs as well as individual components.

In Analog (or partially solid state) each stage is a physical circuit with physical components that can be dirt cheap or quite costly.
so Manufacturing costs are close to same for each unit.
If you also substitute op-amps with their discrete counterparts (transistor networks) it's cost increases manyfolds.

Virtual analog usually are modelling/digital, using mostly chips (microprocessors) so the entire synth engine is built (code) and embedded inside the chip with an interface to communicate with input variables (knobs faders and baisc IO Circuitary ), you spend once on R&D , get the chip/code done, and can have the product easily mass-produced.
Sorry, I still don't get it mainly because I know labor in China is cheap and not expensive.

As for the component costs, what actual components are expensive? Pots, resistors, sliders, capacitors and all manner of little components like that are dirty cheap. Only a few cent each.

What specifically drives up the cost is what I'd like to know. There's R&D, but what else. Just curious. I'm not thinking of Behringer specifically, I'm thinking Analogs in general.

Regards
Sharp.

I think.
Reissue analog synth are expensive because
1) It requires high skills people to make. (It is not like in Chine products done mostly but low skill people.).
2) Parst no longer made or made in very limited quanity. So that drives cost pretty crazy.
3) Hand work.

New analog synth are expensive because
All of that plus R&D.