-=> ArrangerWorld <=-
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
It would be A LOT of real work to be able to come up with a commercial legitimate site for this purpose. You would actually have to create all the midi files and Style files YOURSELF (for all these keyboard brands that are listed!) and then record each song (Style & Midi) and then figure out what the main melody and Chord progression is and then write a lead sheet YOURSELF....and then....etc. You would have to be good at a lot of things to make this happen provided you also have obtained some kind of license from some song writers, singes (if not all). Only then you have ownership over the material that You PERSONALLY have created. That's probably why nobody's done this the right way so far because of that very reason. You can also HIRE musicians to do the job for you but that's also a costly process. I highly doubt it would be a smart commercial venture, if you actually pay people to do the work as it's not cheap to develop original material. It's so weird to ask membership fees to provide users with material that are "from all over" and/or generously shared by members for free!
Sam
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Dikikeys
I have posted many times what a slippery slope in copyright terms 'Songstyles' are...
If you use a copyrighted file, even as the starting point for a style, that copyright still extends to the new work if substantive. If you are offering the new work for free, and it is substantially different from the original, you are probably good to go. But few 'Songstyles' that I have ever heard differ much from the original (that is almost the point of them!), and would seldom survive legal scrutiny.
Sadly, I have also posted many times how important it is for the arranger manufacturers to recognize how important it is to copy protect 3rd party styles, and to provide a mechanism for talented style writers (of which I am sure there are many, if it were a profitable venture) to avoid being ripped off.
I believe the genie CAN be put back in the bottle, particularly as how arranger OS's are proprietary, and memory structures can be protected in ways that a computer simply cannot. But it will take the industry deciding that it is worth the time and cost to do so. I simply say to them that CONTENT is what sells arrangers. CONTENT is what makes people buy arrangers. CONTENT, CONTENT, CONTENT.
If you make it feasible for talented style creators to make and sell quality styles, you up the content by a huge factor. That will up sales in no uncertain terms. But you MUST protect their work. It is unfair to expect them to put the considerable time and talent into making content for YOUR product (which will help YOUR sales) and then leave them to the mercy of rampant piracy (whether intentional or not).
It's a win/win for you and the style creators. In fact, it's a win/win/win for you, the style creators and we, your customers!
Surely it's about time?
If you use a copyrighted file, even as the starting point for a style, that copyright still extends to the new work if substantive. If you are offering the new work for free, and it is substantially different from the original, you are probably good to go. But few 'Songstyles' that I have ever heard differ much from the original (that is almost the point of them!), and would seldom survive legal scrutiny.
Sadly, I have also posted many times how important it is for the arranger manufacturers to recognize how important it is to copy protect 3rd party styles, and to provide a mechanism for talented style writers (of which I am sure there are many, if it were a profitable venture) to avoid being ripped off.
I believe the genie CAN be put back in the bottle, particularly as how arranger OS's are proprietary, and memory structures can be protected in ways that a computer simply cannot. But it will take the industry deciding that it is worth the time and cost to do so. I simply say to them that CONTENT is what sells arrangers. CONTENT is what makes people buy arrangers. CONTENT, CONTENT, CONTENT.
If you make it feasible for talented style creators to make and sell quality styles, you up the content by a huge factor. That will up sales in no uncertain terms. But you MUST protect their work. It is unfair to expect them to put the considerable time and talent into making content for YOUR product (which will help YOUR sales) and then leave them to the mercy of rampant piracy (whether intentional or not).
It's a win/win for you and the style creators. In fact, it's a win/win/win for you, the style creators and we, your customers!
Surely it's about time?
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nitecrawler
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:47 pm
- Location: from a mile high to the the AZ desert
Sorry, off topic; but Sharp, what is that thing covering your face on your picture?
Is it some kind of personal monitor?
Is it some kind of personal monitor?
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... dID=807494
Montage M7, Pa5x76, Nautilus, PA3Xle, Oasys 76, Mini-Moog, EMU Audity 2000, Motion Sound KBR 3D amp, Presonus and Reaper DAW W/Tannoy Reveal 501A powered monitors
Montage M7, Pa5x76, Nautilus, PA3Xle, Oasys 76, Mini-Moog, EMU Audity 2000, Motion Sound KBR 3D amp, Presonus and Reaper DAW W/Tannoy Reveal 501A powered monitors
Not so easy to explain. It's called Oculus Rift.nitecrawler wrote:Sorry, off topic; but Sharp, what is that thing covering your face on your picture?
Is it some kind of personal monitor?
https://www.oculus.com/en-us/rift/
Think of it as your own personal “Holo Deck” where you can be transported to anywhere and you feel like your really there. I'm writing software for it.
Regards
Sharp.
Totally agree.Dikikeys wrote:I have posted many times what a slippery slope in copyright terms 'Songstyles' are...
If you use a copyrighted file, even as the starting point for a style, that copyright still extends to the new work if substantive. If you are offering the new work for free, and it is substantially different from the original, you are probably good to go. But few 'Songstyles' that I have ever heard differ much from the original (that is almost the point of them!), and would seldom survive legal scrutiny.
Sadly, I have also posted many times how important it is for the arranger manufacturers to recognize how important it is to copy protect 3rd party styles, and to provide a mechanism for talented style writers (of which I am sure there are many, if it were a profitable venture) to avoid being ripped off.
I believe the genie CAN be put back in the bottle, particularly as how arranger OS's are proprietary, and memory structures can be protected in ways that a computer simply cannot. But it will take the industry deciding that it is worth the time and cost to do so. I simply say to them that CONTENT is what sells arrangers. CONTENT is what makes people buy arrangers. CONTENT, CONTENT, CONTENT.
If you make it feasible for talented style creators to make and sell quality styles, you up the content by a huge factor. That will up sales in no uncertain terms. But you MUST protect their work. It is unfair to expect them to put the considerable time and talent into making content for YOUR product (which will help YOUR sales) and then leave them to the mercy of rampant piracy (whether intentional or not).
It's a win/win for you and the style creators. In fact, it's a win/win/win for you, the style creators and we, your customers!
Surely it's about time?
I'm self employed and if there was a means to generate an income from writing original styles, I'd do it all day every day.
Regards
Sharp,
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siebenhirter
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:01 pm
Styles - no additional restriction necessary
Hello,
there is no evidence that more stringent copyright mechanisms or proprietary would increase or promote quality of software - that's pure speculation - often the opposite is true (GNU, Free Software Foundation).
What does it mean for playing with styles: if someone use an Arrangerkeyboard with factory-styles or additional style-software, it is most important to be able to use them without limitation.
It must also be possible to modify these styles and adapt to its needs, it must be possible to make songs with them and it must be also allowed him to sell both Arrangerkeyboards and Styles.
It is enough that there are existing laws against the abuse of copy-protected software - that is, it is forbidden - and for crime each person is responsibly for oneself!
We do not need additional copy-mechanisms to be restricted in using ones keyboards or to be restriced in creativity - also thus really do not prevent abuse. It was good that Korg has lifted restrictions of copy-mechanism in its Pa3x.
Copying and editing of arranger Styles for ones personal use are important features of arranger keyboards and may not be so hampered by additional restrictions, because others do not accept copyrights!
PS: Years ago also other producers recognized that the Internet has changed everyone's lives and would continue to support products with the copy and edit features of Style Files even after copyright violations, keeping faith in her users' sense of responsibility.
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/003070.html
there is no evidence that more stringent copyright mechanisms or proprietary would increase or promote quality of software - that's pure speculation - often the opposite is true (GNU, Free Software Foundation).
What does it mean for playing with styles: if someone use an Arrangerkeyboard with factory-styles or additional style-software, it is most important to be able to use them without limitation.
It must also be possible to modify these styles and adapt to its needs, it must be possible to make songs with them and it must be also allowed him to sell both Arrangerkeyboards and Styles.
It is enough that there are existing laws against the abuse of copy-protected software - that is, it is forbidden - and for crime each person is responsibly for oneself!
We do not need additional copy-mechanisms to be restricted in using ones keyboards or to be restriced in creativity - also thus really do not prevent abuse. It was good that Korg has lifted restrictions of copy-mechanism in its Pa3x.
Copying and editing of arranger Styles for ones personal use are important features of arranger keyboards and may not be so hampered by additional restrictions, because others do not accept copyrights!
PS: Years ago also other producers recognized that the Internet has changed everyone's lives and would continue to support products with the copy and edit features of Style Files even after copyright violations, keeping faith in her users' sense of responsibility.
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/003070.html
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
It's a double edged sword. Locking styles (the way they have been doing over the past few years) has done more harm than good. From the customer's perspective this makes no sense for good reasons. As a legit owner you should be able to modify the Style using the Keyboard's advertised features that you have also already paid for! As far as I know this method has totally backfired with all keyboards that come with "locked" features.
So unless they come up with a more reasonable method that protects both sides of the deal, I don't see how this could benefit anybody. Maybe something similar to Kronos Libraries? That would probably require too much work though. Maybe in the long run it'll be worth it?
The Arranger world thread was basically an old thread that was reposted with a new title. I don't think it was a very smart idea to make the original problem go away. If something is offered for free it should stay that way. Otherwise, anybody could connect the main output of a keyboard and record a mp3!
So unless they come up with a more reasonable method that protects both sides of the deal, I don't see how this could benefit anybody. Maybe something similar to Kronos Libraries? That would probably require too much work though. Maybe in the long run it'll be worth it?
The Arranger world thread was basically an old thread that was reposted with a new title. I don't think it was a very smart idea to make the original problem go away. If something is offered for free it should stay that way. Otherwise, anybody could connect the main output of a keyboard and record a mp3!
Sam
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siebenhirter
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:01 pm
Styles - no additional restriction necessary
why not - we did it with turntable, tape-recorder, cd-player, vhs-recorder etc ..Sam CA wrote: .. Otherwise, anybody could connect the main output of a keyboard and record a mp3!
copyright is less complicated as described here.
it is not allowed to hurt copyrights.
legal users it is allowed to use software for its needs.
as one is a legal user one need no additional restrictions in his equipment.
if one think using styles with copyright as starting point for new work (to make money) would not survive legal scrutiny it is ones personal decision and risk to produce plagiats.
but it is no good idea if arranger manufacturers would copyprotect 3rd party styles with obstructive mechanism.
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
Re: Styles - no additional restriction necessary
You completely misunderstood the point I was trying to make. I wasn't talking about Copyright issues in general. Anyway it doesn't matter.siebenhirter wrote: why not -...
Sam