Korg Forums

navigatorxx wrote:Hi guys, I would remind you that 'nobody wants to controversy,
but 'I would make the following consideration:
The Pa3x materially as hardware that is more 'or less than € 400,
the operating system - sounds and styles, the rest ie '€ 3,000 euros, and not a few.
So 'one who spends € 3,000 euros, takes the goods free of bugs and possibly updating and correction as soon as possible.
And I would also add that those who took my € 3,000 and will not take it for long.

You make interesting points but it is the design, R&D and quality control of these machines which take the time and cost the money - agree - physical components are cheap. These keyboards ARE worth the money. Consider the millions of testing permutations in the PA3X. Whenever one bug is "fixed" the whole instrument requires extensive testing to ensure that the "fix" has not caused problems elsewhere etc...etc....
Anyone expecting bug-free software in any such device is dreaming - it will never happen. There are as many bugs in Yamahas, Rolands, Casios etc... and the more complex the instrument the more likely there are bugs.
The PA3X (and its predecessors) have been pretty well tested and considering the flexibility and complexity of these devices, they are in pretty good shape.
We have all had to (and still are) tolerate the countless bugs in MS WINDOWS, LINUX, etc... yet we still pay big $$$ for them and our PCs.
It is the nature of software/firmware development.
Also consider that unlike some other manufacturers, Korg not only fix up bugs, they add new and useful features - AT NO COST.

I play my PA3X - STYLEs, SONGs, SOUNDs, VOCAL HARMONIZER, MP3s and simply love it!! So far it has not "bugged" me at all.

So I fully support Dennis' original message.

Having been involved in high technical software development and implementation for many many years, it is just my opinion.

Pete

In my opinion, KORG Pa3X has one big ''BUG''!
It's The KING for the next 5 years.

Feel sorry for the other brands...

I think it's crucial to distinguish clearly between general purpose software and professional hardware software. When something is not working properly when writing a text, editing a photo or even mixing and mastering you still have a second chance to do it later.
Pa3x is designed for live performance, and this is certainly not a proper time for testing new release of their software. I know some users might say: Let us choose whether we want to install the beta release for testing, but how many could resist “checking new features”?
Then if something goes wrong we start complaining, and if something goes wrong during live performance you might have to excuse yourself in front of the audience. I don't think Korg would like this kind of marketing.
And if that is not enough, think of Pa3x software like a computer's BIOS software. How many of us would risk upgrading to beta release?

Anyway, I know the “waiting for” feeling. I had to wait more than two months for my Pa3x, going through all the “sorry, maybe next week” stuff. But that was the time when I found this forum, and that is a good point...

ozdaniel(AD) wrote:In my opinion, KORG Pa3X has one big ''BUG''!
It's The KING for the next 5 years.

Feel sorry for the other brands...

Here's what I mean when the hardware PA3x worth € 400 euros
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6581/img0637tp.jpg
taken from here:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... b18dc123b6

And the hardware itself is this, let alone the software!

And here is the reason for the delay in the correction of bugs

A laptop even the poor, use the battery management much more efficient.
And then the OS PA3x, is at least half copied from earlier versions of arranger.

Italiano:
Ecco cosa intendo quando l'hardware della PA3x vale € 400 euro,

e sè l'hardware è questo, figuriamoci il software !

ed ecco il motivo del ritardo nella correzione dei bugs

Un pc portatile anche il più scadente, utilizza la gestione delle batterie molto più efficente .
E poi il OS della PA3x, è almeno per la metà copiato dalle precedenti versioni di arranger


bye

when you look at the korg os . you can't compare it to windows os and you are right countless bugs in WINDOWS but . windows os works on all computer and Dell witch is different that compaq or toshiba or HP and so on . . now if korg os would work on Roland keyboard or yamaha and like window still have some bugs in it ok ... it just this is korg keyboard and korg chips arrangement or design ,architectural , korg know the blueprints, Korg engineering ,so korg know what is inside . so it should work better . were windows do not know the design or blueprints or what kind of video chis are in the other brand computer but still works , but it still word 98% of the time .. and the korg os is soooo much smaller then windows .

duby2 wrote:when you look at the korg os . you can't compare it to windows os and you are right countless bugs in WINDOWS but . windows os works on all computer and Dell witch is different that compaq or toshiba or HP and so on . . now if korg os would work on Roland keyboard or yamaha and like window still have some bugs in it ok ... it just this is korg keyboard and korg chips arrangement or design ,architectural , korg know the blueprints, Korg engineering ,so korg know what is inside . so it should work better . were windows do not know the design or blueprints or what kind of video chis are in the other brand computer but still works , but it still word 98% of the time .. and the korg os is soooo much smaller then windows .

Look, the OS must control for playing korg little things, like tens of AD and DA converters and no 64-bits, some multi-effects, the keyboard and the display certainly not in high definition.
While windows, mac-osx or linux only for printing on a dot matrix printer, and should do more 'different hardware.

Ita:
Guarda chè l'OS korg per suonare deve controllare ben poche cose, tipo qualche decina di convertitori AD e DA e no a 64 bits , qualche multi effetto, la tastiera e il display non certo in alta definizione .
Mentre windows, mac-osx o linux solo per stampare su una stampante ad aghi, deve fare molto altro e su' hardware diverso.

Still don't get all this complaining.

If one is THAT unhappy then go buy/trade-for something else.

It seems that there is a lack of appreciation relating to the complexity of a professional arranger (or any firmware/software driven device).

you can't compare it to windows os and you are right countless bugs in WINDOWS but . windows os works on all computer and Dell witch is different that compaq or toshiba or HP and so on . . now if korg os would work on Roland keyboard or yamaha and like window still have some bugs in it ok

I can compare it - I am expressing the complexity of testing these OSs. If you want to narrow it down then compare it to the development and testing of MAC-OSX - that is an Apple OS written for Apple hardware. Anyway none of this is worth arguing about - firmware/software/hardware all requires extensive testing and in the case of ANY OS (keyboard, WINDOWS, OSX, LINUX, or whatever) the design, development and testing components are equally significant and equally challenging. In 2012, we are way beyond EVER creating a fool-proof fully tested product with these complexities.

Summary - my PA3X works brilliantly ....... what is going on here?

PLAY IT!!!
HAVE SOME FUN!!!!


Pete

(Generally speaking about complaining)

Well I Dont know whit the guy that started this topic, if he is thinking straight..

We have the right to complain, not that we are greedy..

But when you pay for something expensive like this, you deserves a stable OS whit function to come fullfilling the keyboards functions (2012)

And by the way I think they are taking enought money from each keyboard to put in a Money pocket for the OS engieners.

So accually they are not doing anything for free for us.

Well I Dont know whit the guy that started this topic, if he is thinking straight..

Just confirming... He is...

Oh I am loving this - it is getting more ridiculous by the minute.

Hey Dennis - YOU STARTED THIS - what do reckon mate?

OK, I know some of this is lighthearted banta but come on - the PA3X a pretty damned great keyboard for the money - there ain't nothin out there to compare right now.... (climbing on my soapbox now..)

You complain about the price and value but please consider that if Korg is to survive... Korg must cover the costs of:

• Project management
  Hardware design
  Firmware design
  Software design
  Programming firmware and OS
  Pre production testing
  Manufacturing
  Shipping
  Ongoing development of updates
  Design and development of next new products
  Staff and management salaries (and these are ongoing.....)
  Workshop/office/tools
  ...and I am sure I have missed some...

Do you seriously think the PA3X is expensive and that you deserve a whole lot more??? - - for starters, maybe go learn to program and then have a think about how you would approach designing and developing an arranger (or any) keyboard OS...

I see complaints about wanting a stable OS??? - mine is very stable
I just don't understand many of these comments - yes there are some bugs - NONE so far stop me from having a fabulous and reliable time on my PA3X.
WHAT is so bad about this keyboard that makes some so uptight about value for money and expectations for things that are not even part of the keyboard's specs?

But, at the end of the day, if you think your PA3X is NOT worth the money then sell it - forget about Korg and go by an Audya (whoops they're not finished yet...) OK well pay more $$ and get a Tyros 4 and get NO new free features, get an unfriendly OS for performing and recording, get a second rate VH, OH and pay $$ for every wretched style they produce.
Or get a Casio - or better still - take up drumming.....

Oh Yuk!! I've said too much again - you won't hear from me again...(maybe)

I politely repeat - PLAY IT & HAVE SOME REAL FUN AND SOME GREAT GIGS!!

How I need wine (not whine!!).....

You guys are awesome - love all the feedback (seriously)

Take care
Pete

Of course what you said is right.. I havent read any of the members complaining list in this topic.. So I generelly spoked about why we have the right to Complain as a feedback for making it better. Critisisim is suposed to take for making better of it. But shure there is limits too, not just complain and being greedy. (The korg pa3x oriental have some big OS issues for an example)

Let them complain, if people dont like it they will ignore it then its not an importent fix.

And by the way if you think that the cost of design, marketing etc would make them not getting any profit (you make it sound like that).. then theywould never make keyboards or speakers or cars whats so ever.. So take your calculated budget list whit a pinch of salt.

karmathanever wrote:

Well I Dont know whit the guy that started this topic, if he is thinking straight..

Just confirming... He is...

Oh I am loving this - it is getting more ridiculous by the minute.

Hey Dennis - YOU STARTED THIS - what do reckon mate?

OK, I know some of this is lighthearted banta but come on - the PA3X a pretty damned great keyboard for the money - there ain't nothin out there to compare right now.... (climbing on my soapbox now..)

You complain about the price and value but please consider that if Korg is to survive... Korg must cover the costs of:

• Project management
  Hardware design
  Firmware design
  Software design
  Programming firmware and OS
  Pre production testing
  Manufacturing
  Shipping
  Ongoing development of updates
  Design and development of next new products
  Staff and management salaries (and these are ongoing.....)
  Workshop/office/tools
  ...and I am sure I have missed some...

Do you seriously think the PA3X is expensive and that you deserve a whole lot more??? - - for starters, maybe go learn to program and then have a think about how you would approach designing and developing an arranger (or any) keyboard OS...

I see complaints about wanting a stable OS??? - mine is very stable
I just don't understand many of these comments - yes there are some bugs - NONE so far stop me from having a fabulous and reliable time on my PA3X.
WHAT is so bad about this keyboard that makes some so uptight about value for money and expectations for things that are not even part of the keyboard's specs?

But, at the end of the day, if you think your PA3X is NOT worth the money then sell it - forget about Korg and go by an Audya (whoops they're not finished yet...) OK well pay more $$ and get a Tyros 4 and get NO new free features, get an unfriendly OS for performing and recording, get a second rate VH, OH and pay $$ for every wretched style they produce.
Or get a Casio - or better still - take up drumming.....

Oh Yuk!! I've said too much again - you won't hear from me again...(maybe)

I politely repeat - PLAY IT & HAVE SOME REAL FUN AND SOME GREAT GIGS!!

How I need wine (not whine!!).....

You guys are awesome - love all the feedback (seriously)

Take care
Pete

Like Pete , love all the feedback (seriously) and I still Love the pa3x

karmathanever wrote:

Well I Dont know whit the guy that started this topic, if he is thinking straight..

Just confirming... He is...

Oh I am loving this - it is getting more ridiculous by the minute.

Hey Dennis - YOU STARTED THIS - what do reckon mate?

Pete I still stand by my original post...whingers bore the heck out of me and these people (mind you, they are a VERY small percentage of PA owners) are never happy no matter what..

I reckon if they won 500,000 in the lottery they would complain they didn't win 5550,000 instead!!!

If they seriously spent as much time in "learning" and making their PA's "their own" and yes I know that line is pretty much a cliche now, but it is true....

The ease with which one can totally change this keyboard is amazing.

For example - you can have you bog standard factory setup..
have setup where all the styles are tweaked and modified for your style.
In my case my styles are setup so it is mostly a 3 or four piece band combos - I eschew all the multi part style arrangements. I think it is these big "production number styles" that give arrangers a bad name (totally undeserved)

Or even have the Smies collection as another alternative...ALL available after a few minutes of load time!!

I have NEVER found a keyboard that is as configurable in operation as the PA, nor as easy to use when you consider how complex it is....the fact that the Korg software engineers get all of it to run as well as it does always amazes me...

This is a DREAM to use on stage in actual physical operation...There is just so much that can be automated.....

Of course, one can find fault with just about ANYTHING on the planet if one looks hard enough..... it's almost like these people have nothing better to do than try and "outscore" someone else on so-called "fault" reporting...or they HAVE to be the first to find some "bug" that is not really a bug but just their personal weird way of wanting to do something, and then being disappointed that Korg engineers were not smart enough to mind-read just for them regardless of cost.

It (the PA3) has it's shortcomings, but really m8, these guys are not seeing the forest for the trees, and sadly the glass will always be "half-empty" for them.

Korg can't win...no matter WHAT they release, there will be a few here who will jump on it within hours to complain about this or that....drives me nuts. Why not post positive stuff, or better still songs and such that are produced on the PA....

If only these guys were around in the early days of arrangers...I mean my first was the Roland RA50!!!! They should maybe have a go at one of those and THEN they may appreciate just exactly what they have in the PA3...

Dennis

karmathanever wrote:

Well I Dont know whit the guy that started this topic, if he is thinking straight..

Just confirming... He is...

Oh I am loving this - it is getting more ridiculous by the minute.

Hey Dennis - YOU STARTED THIS - what do reckon mate?

OK, I know some of this is lighthearted banta but come on - the PA3X a pretty damned great keyboard for the money - there ain't nothin out there to compare right now.... (climbing on my soapbox now..)

You complain about the price and value but please consider that if Korg is to survive... Korg must cover the costs of:

• Project management
  Hardware design
  Firmware design
  Software design
  Programming firmware and OS
  Pre production testing
  Manufacturing
  Shipping
  Ongoing development of updates
  Design and development of next new products
  Staff and management salaries (and these are ongoing.....)
  Workshop/office/tools
  ...and I am sure I have missed some...

Pete

But when I see this,


It is not 'an IPAD or even the blender of my grandmother, but it' s only the technology and design of KORG
I do not think it's superior engineering is not it?
which costs the beauty of € 3,400 euros.

Anyway, I love my Pa3x, 'cause there' is no alternative

You could see pictures of "under-cover" engineering examples like that on anything!!

Man, you REALLY had to dig deep to find something (anything it would seem) to try and support the silly arguments presented on this thread..

Sheesh, I agree with Pete, this IS getting ridiculous!!!

"Summary - my PA3X works brilliantly ....... what is going on here? "

its OK , but:

here this person have a BIG problem with the KORG PA3X, and, he need a solution!
Regards!