Korg Forums

It is a shame that some of the best piano and EP sounds available are mated to one of the less impressive actions out there.

Bruce Lychee wrote:It is a shame that some of the best piano and EP sounds available are mated to one of the less impressive actions out there.

I know you guys are talking about the 88 Key version, but what about the 73 and 61 key action?
Any one suffering from a similar problem on a 73 or 61 Kronos?

carmol wrote:(it seems that)
RH3 is designed in italy by fatar

Care to elaborate? What does "seems" mean other that that it's just a rumor?

PauloF wrote:

Bruce Lychee wrote:It is a shame that some of the best piano and EP sounds available are mated to one of the less impressive actions out there.

I know you guys are talking about the 88 Key version, but what about the 73 and 61 key action?
Any one suffering from a similar problem on a 73 or 61 Kronos?

The 61 is a much different keyboard, but the 73 should be equal (except for the amount of keys).

GiantSonicRobot wrote:

carmol wrote:(it seems that)
RH3 is designed in italy by fatar

Care to elaborate? What does "seems" mean other that that it's just a rumor?

I didnt see it with my own eyes
But should be true.
BTW I like rh3 action,
not like a real piano but
very playable IMHO

Bruce Lychee wrote:It is a shame that some of the best piano and EP sounds available are mated to one of the less impressive actions out there.

I couldn't disagree more.
I use a Kronos 73, and the keyboard action fits like a glove to me.

The really great thing about this keyboard action is that it gives you full control for piano and epiano play and the like, while still being very playable for fast runs and some slides. I have no problems playing synth stuff and even organ with it as well (of course the latter not like on a waterfall keybed).

It's two completely different things to ctiticize a malfunctioning key (and even more justified, if such "hanging" keys occur on several 88 keyboards), or to slander the RH3 key action in general due to nothing but personal preferences.

I agree with you

i have a 73 keybd and im satisfied as can be. It is marvelous.

I've only played it in the store so far, but for a few hours. And while I did have to get used to it (compared to the Yamaha C6 and Nord Stage I normally play), it got comfortable enough over time. It has the feel of real hammers in it, the bounce back and initial attack is somewhat different than most, but I would definitely not call it a bad keyboard.
Besides, considering how much difference there is between actual grands, I think "personal preference" is key here. Ha. Ha. Ha.

Now this is what pisses me off about korg these days, quality issues are going more and more down the tube, especially build quality witch in the long run leads to reliability issues. Stuff like this shouldn't leave the factory, i really don't understand how they test a keyboard ans a keybed on QC, i mean do they actually test all the keys, sliders, buttons and knobs to see if they are working properly?
The more i look at korg's built quality these days the more i love my 01/W's and my trinity. They are about 17 years old, not one single problem aside an occasional button change or a clean up and re-lube. I can understand cutting corners in somethings but to me build quality shouldn't be one of them. It's bad enough that they are no longer using the yamaha keybeds. I really think that if i buy the Kronos i'll probably buy the 61 key version and use an external keyboard to control it cause it scares me spending 3K or more on a 88 key keyboard and have data wheals or sliders or something coming off while i'm playing... My Motif XS8 never had a single problem, and i do haul it around a bit

The Motif XS8 at the music school I work at had the sides fall off because the screws came loose from simple transport.

Point being; incidental evidence (good or bad) is still incidental. It means literally nothing on a statistical level.

jimknopf wrote:

Bruce Lychee wrote:It is a shame that some of the best piano and EP sounds available are mated to one of the less impressive actions out there.

I couldn't disagree more.
I use a Kronos 73, and the keyboard action fits like a glove to me.

The really great thing about this keyboard action is that it gives you full control for piano and epiano play and the like, while still being very playable for fast runs and some slides. I have no problems playing synth stuff and even organ with it as well (of course the latter not like on a waterfall keybed).

It's two completely different things to ctiticize a malfunctioning key (and even more justified, if such "hanging" keys occur on several 88 keyboards), or to slander the RH3 key action in general due to nothing but personal preferences.

I'm not slandering the RH3 for personal preferences. I don't think it takes a genius to look at the construction of the RH3 and realize it isn't of the same quality as the action on something like the CP1/5 or 700NX. Look down at your keyboard and tell me you don't see the variances in spacing from key to key. Not only is the physical construction something you wouldn't even see on a $900 Casio, it is one of the loudest actions I have ever played.

I find the action completely playable and responsive, nevertheless I would have to be in serious denial regarding the Kronos to believe it is using a great action compared to the top digital pianos out there. One visit to the piano forums will tell you how the RH3 action is generally regarded in the world of digital piano actions. If your defending the RH3 because it works for you, I would say that you are the one who needs a little objectivity on the matter.

To bring up your favorite subject, it isn't really any different than comparing the dials on the Kronos and Jupiter 80. The dial on the Kronos might work for you and you might actually prefer it, but if you are going to tell me that objectively, it is of the same quality as that on the Jupiter, I would say that you either have some deep need to justify your purchases or you are just clueless.

Allmost all synth and workstation keyboarders I know are keyboarders using multi purpose gear, from pianos/stage pianos over all kinds of synth keybeds to waterfall organ keys, and in their vast majority they are definitely not puristic pianists.

So the the narrow pianist view at keyboards is simply not relevant in this area of multi-purpose keyboard playing, and I know that most keyboarders want precise piano/epiano play besides playing all kinds of other sounds in a workstation. A pianist can buy a stage piano to come closer to his natural piano feeling, while sacrificing whole areas of keyboard sound for that preference.

On the other hand, I would not at all feel comfortable playing synth sounds on exactly the stage pianos you name, neither on a Yamaha CP1/5 nor on a Roland 700NX, though they have fine piano action, each in their own way. Result: the RH3 fits exactly the purpose of playing a Kronos across the multitude of synth engines and sonic possibilities. If quality issues arise, they have to be adressed, but neither the action nor the key spacing is a problem on my Kronos so far.

Concerning the JP-80, which you can't resist to mention: it does not even offer hammer action at all, and the minimal controller supply it has could be made of wood, marble or stainless steel and would still look ridiculously under-equipped, compared to the big, very well working and fully assignable controller block with all it's knobs, buttons and sliders on a Kronos.

The RH3 is defined by Korg as Real Weighted Hammer Action 3. Not only do they use the term "real", the action is graded and weighted, and but for aftertouch, is the identical action in Korg's own stage piano, the SV1. You don't think Korg was trying to make it similar to a piano action? Furthermore, whatever cross functionality the action needs to serve, it will clearly be more suitable for piano than synth leads.

Your comment regarding the CP1 tells me that you would rather try to make a point than get the facts straight. The CP1 action not even graded, is lighter across the board than the RH3 and is even more well suited to covering all sorts of playing.

Concerning the JP80, the Kronos is made of more than wood, marble and stainless steel and it still can't do what the Jupiter does. Nor can the Jupiter do what the Kronos does. That being said, it doesn't change the point that was being made.

I love the pianos and EPs on the Kronos and feel they overcome any reservations I have about the action. Nevertheless, had Korg mated those sounds with a better action, the Kronos would be getting more consideration from those looking for pure stage pianos in the same price range. I just think a more refined action could have been developed and used without hindering the functionality of the Kronos in any way.

jorgemncardoso wrote:Now this is what pisses me off about korg these days, quality issues are going more and more down the tube, especially build quality witch in the long run leads to reliability issues. Stuff like this shouldn't leave the factory, i really don't understand how they test a keyboard ans a keybed on QC, i mean do they actually test all the keys, sliders, buttons and knobs to see if they are working properly?
The more i look at korg's built quality these days the more i love my 01/W's and my trinity. They are about 17 years old, not one single problem

Bingo.

The RH3 action is what it is. Not up to Roland or Yamaha's action but certainly playable and as pointed out by a few here, maybe preferred for all around keyboard playing. I don't have a problem with that at all.

What really gets me going are these QC issues. I've owned two SV-1s now. The first one was cool, had it for about 6 weeks and no problems in the keybed. I sold it more for being unhappy with its APs then any build issues. The second one I owned less then a month and there were quite a few uneven spacings in the keyboard, very noisy keys, even one key that stuck, the D above high C. Lame.

There will be folks that get a Kronos where everything is 100% ok. However, to have every 2 out 5 or even 2 out of 10 have keybed or other QC issues is not acceptable.

Musicians never have it easy. We have to work our ass off sometimes to make a measly $100. For us to shell out $3-3500 on a keyboard can mean major sacrifices. 99% of us aren't as high profile as Herbie or Jordan R. If something's not right, we can't make a call and have a new keyboard by the end of the day. Spending this kind of dough , especially in this economy, is a big deal to us. OK, the Kronos sounds great, that's a given, that's why we're forking out the big $$$$s here, but at least respect us as consumers and make a product where we're not thinking....man I hope I get a good one.

I've been buying electronic gear for 42 years--keyboards, amps, speakers, mics, effects processors, recorders, etc. I never recall having these kind of QC/reliability problems on gear from even 15 years ago...

The RH3 keybed is manufactured by Fatar specially for Korg. Korg doesn't have a manufacturing facility for weighted keybeds. Fatar keybeds are a hit or miss. Some work well and others malfunction prematurely.