You make it sound like they enslave child labor to club baby seals and turn it into CFC's to take over the world. Seriously, you must have way too little going on in your life to make an absurd statement like that. They took a really powerful discontinued workstation, improved upon it's design and are releasing it with a new name. THE HUMANITY!!!!Kevin Nolan wrote:...there is still a point about glaring, dubious behaviour from a company many are about to give multiple thousands of dollars to. I believe that warrants consideration.
Kronos Interview: Korg's Rich Formidoni and Dan Phillips
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).
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Citizen Klaus
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In what way is that being misleading? What is it, exactly, that prospective Kronos customers might miss out on if they don't realize that the Kronos is a reduced-price OASYS with some extra goodies?Kevin Nolan wrote:Akos - despite penumbra's dreadful language and attitude, he has a real and valid point. I flagged this when the Kronos was released – and is this - the entire NAMM release of Kronos passed by without a single mention of OASYS. I found that quite staggering. Not one mention of OASYS during the entire exhibition.
I was puzzled at first - I would have thought Korg were proud of OASYS. But clearly they have distanced themselves completely from OASYS – they are in complete denial of its existence ; suggesting that they do not want to link its relative financial failure with Kronos for fear people would question the quality of Kronos.
That’s all fine and understandable - except - they are actively misleading new and unsuspecting customers. They are being underhand in this particular issue. They are making out that Kronos is a totally new instrument; which it most certainly is not - it is a direct descendent of OASYS.
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burningbusch
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The first question Rich answers:
Kronos is a new instrument, but there is definitely a blood relation. Much of the R&D that went into OASYS made its way into Kronos, and this is evident in the synth engines, the interface, and the heightened audio quality. As with any other new product, we see it as a step forward. Thanks to recent technological advances, it has lots of innovation that wouldn’t have been possible with the OASYS hardware. OASYS maintains some elegant features that aren’t present in Kronos, such as velocity-sensitive pads, LEDs near the faders and knobs, additional I/O (with phantom-powered mic preamps), a built-in CDRW, and a larger display.
I don't see any distancing in this statement. Kronos and OASYS are referenced three times each.
Busch.
Kronos is a new instrument, but there is definitely a blood relation. Much of the R&D that went into OASYS made its way into Kronos, and this is evident in the synth engines, the interface, and the heightened audio quality. As with any other new product, we see it as a step forward. Thanks to recent technological advances, it has lots of innovation that wouldn’t have been possible with the OASYS hardware. OASYS maintains some elegant features that aren’t present in Kronos, such as velocity-sensitive pads, LEDs near the faders and knobs, additional I/O (with phantom-powered mic preamps), a built-in CDRW, and a larger display.
I don't see any distancing in this statement. Kronos and OASYS are referenced three times each.
Busch.
If Korg meant to be deceptive they're not doing a very good job of it---it's no secret to anyone that seven engines are the same. I can see why they might want to avoid using the name OASYS. They don't want to confuse people with a preconceived idea of what OASYS is. First, the Kronos is not open architecture. Second, given the higher OASYS price tag, how many people would instantly tune it out hearing that name? Kronos is new in the sense of being a new entrant to the sub-$4000 workstation market. Third, how could they call it something like OASYS 2 considering the features that have been removed such as the additional I/O, drum pads, CD drive, and LEDs next to controllers? If they associated this new keyboard with OASYS, how many people would then be freaking out because it's not enough like an OASYS?
If Korg thought OASYS was a failure, why release another product very similar to it using the same technology? Is it because they plan to fool new users into thinking it's not an OASYS but something different, thereby tricking them into buying it when they otherwise wouldn't? But people buy a keyboard based on what they hear, what it does, and by trying it out in the store. How are they being fooled? If you read posts on this forum, what gets people excited is that Kronos IS like OASYS and has the same sound quality, just at a much lower price.
Good question.Citizen Klaus wrote:In what way is that being misleading? What is it, exactly, that prospective Kronos customers might miss out on if they don't realize that the Kronos is a reduced-price OASYS with some extra goodies?
If Korg thought OASYS was a failure, why release another product very similar to it using the same technology? Is it because they plan to fool new users into thinking it's not an OASYS but something different, thereby tricking them into buying it when they otherwise wouldn't? But people buy a keyboard based on what they hear, what it does, and by trying it out in the store. How are they being fooled? If you read posts on this forum, what gets people excited is that Kronos IS like OASYS and has the same sound quality, just at a much lower price.
Korg Kronos 61, DSS-1, EX-8000
VAX77; John Bowen Solaris; Yamaha S90ES, TX81Z; Hammond XK3c; Kurzweil K2000S, PC88mx; Minimoog (orig)
VAX77; John Bowen Solaris; Yamaha S90ES, TX81Z; Hammond XK3c; Kurzweil K2000S, PC88mx; Minimoog (orig)
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ozy
parking?!?GregC wrote:I think your argument is similar to other debates on religion, parking, taxes, politics, etc.
Did I miss a debate on PARKING?!? 
When? How? Where?
Must have been busy with the "taxes" thread.
May somebody please post a link to the thread about "The Millenary problem of parking. Could Kronos be the answer?"
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GregC
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How could you miss it ?ozy wrote:parking?!?GregC wrote:I think your argument is similar to other debates on religion, parking, taxes, politics, etc.
When? How? Where?
Must have been busy with the "taxes" thread.
May somebody please post a link to the thread about "The Millenary problem of parking. Could Kronos be the answer?"
Search ' Italian drivers '
Don't even get me STARTED on Italian drivers...GregC wrote:How could you miss it ?
Search ' Italian drivers '
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).
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rrricky rrrecordo
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How can one consider OASYS a failure?
A lot of musicians who were willing to pay the premium price for a premium flagship workstation bought OASYS, fell head over heels in love, gushed on endlessly about its capabilities and potential, and some , Kevin included, say that they still have much to learn about it.
So it didn't sell by the hundreds of thousands of units... nor do Rolls Royces or Maybachs. OASYS set new world class standards for a music workstation in its heyday, but time and technology continually move ever forward. Ya keep the great bits, drop the old tech, engineer in some new bits, and watch (whatever that dude's name is) law bump up the power-to-price ratio exponentially every six months... and it's like six years since OASYS came online... so if OASYS is a failure, I reckon evolution is too.
A lot of musicians who were willing to pay the premium price for a premium flagship workstation bought OASYS, fell head over heels in love, gushed on endlessly about its capabilities and potential, and some , Kevin included, say that they still have much to learn about it.
So it didn't sell by the hundreds of thousands of units... nor do Rolls Royces or Maybachs. OASYS set new world class standards for a music workstation in its heyday, but time and technology continually move ever forward. Ya keep the great bits, drop the old tech, engineer in some new bits, and watch (whatever that dude's name is) law bump up the power-to-price ratio exponentially every six months... and it's like six years since OASYS came online... so if OASYS is a failure, I reckon evolution is too.
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Kevin Nolan
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McHale - debate the point being discussed and if you don't have an opinion, don't attack the individual. You do this over and over with forum members.
Citizen Klaus and burningbusch - Rich's answers were just reactions to the clever questions in the interview wich were designed to push the point. If you read the whole article you'll see the interviewer was trying to extract information on a myriad of points that are not clear and obvious from all that has been promoted about Kronos; and a range of ordinary questions you'd normally expect in such an interview were not asked. The interviewer, IMO, smelt a rat on this. So Rich was only responding - he was not volunteering this stand point.
Again - I make this point qualified by the fact that I watched all of the promotional material available on Kronos on various web channels and sites - and not once has Rich or Korg mentioned the legacy of Kronos; and always they claimed it to be a new instrument which it is not.
I'm not going to convince anyone here - but I'm not posting here to convince you - I'm simply making the point for new and unsuspecting readers - to put it out there. And again you may not deem the point important but I do. As said - even the editor of Sound on Sound magazine naively previewed the Kronos as completely new and that misleading.
As said - I'm not trying to win a debate with you here - I'm merely flagging curious behaviour by Korg. Otherwise, as I've repeatedly said, I find Korg's approach to technology admirable - I own OASYS and will buy Kronos. But Korg's disowning of OASYS is, to say the least, poor. It has been a very, very curious promotion campaign and instrument launch.
Kevin.
Citizen Klaus and burningbusch - Rich's answers were just reactions to the clever questions in the interview wich were designed to push the point. If you read the whole article you'll see the interviewer was trying to extract information on a myriad of points that are not clear and obvious from all that has been promoted about Kronos; and a range of ordinary questions you'd normally expect in such an interview were not asked. The interviewer, IMO, smelt a rat on this. So Rich was only responding - he was not volunteering this stand point.
Again - I make this point qualified by the fact that I watched all of the promotional material available on Kronos on various web channels and sites - and not once has Rich or Korg mentioned the legacy of Kronos; and always they claimed it to be a new instrument which it is not.
I'm not going to convince anyone here - but I'm not posting here to convince you - I'm simply making the point for new and unsuspecting readers - to put it out there. And again you may not deem the point important but I do. As said - even the editor of Sound on Sound magazine naively previewed the Kronos as completely new and that misleading.
As said - I'm not trying to win a debate with you here - I'm merely flagging curious behaviour by Korg. Otherwise, as I've repeatedly said, I find Korg's approach to technology admirable - I own OASYS and will buy Kronos. But Korg's disowning of OASYS is, to say the least, poor. It has been a very, very curious promotion campaign and instrument launch.
Kevin.
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peter_schwartz
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Ricky and McHale are spot on here. There is no crime, there is no deception. There's not even an issue! All we have here is a troll who made some disparaging remarks (which is all that guy ever seems to do anyway) and for some reason his comments have sparked some rather distasteful banter about the company and the very people who visit this forum to provide personalized answers to your questions. Egads, man.
Anyway, why exactly why would any Korg rep mention Oasys when talking about the Kronos? I mean, why should they? What would the point be? Whom would it satisfy? What greater good would it do?
To re up on Sina's car analogy, when the new year rolls around and car companies begin advertising their new models, do they talk about their old models? There's only one answer to that question, and it rhymes with "no". And why should they talk about last year's models? They're not making them anymore. Dig?
On another tack, not many people ever knew about the Oasys, just like not many people were familiar with Yamaha's DX1, though they were more than familiar with the DX7 and the TX816. So re selling the Kronos, there wouldn't be much point in comparing it to a keyboard (the big O) that didn't achieve popularity in numbers or name, despite the similarities. I'm pretty sure that Korg wouldn't want people going, "O-what-sys? Oh, that thing. I never really gave it much thought because it was so expensive."
IMO, Rich F. (who I haven't known for very long but seems like a "very honest chap") is doing a great job, not only by talking straight about the Kronos, but he's also doing all truly interested members of this forum a HUGE favor by providing personalized answers to your questions. Yet many members of this forum are more than happy to slag him and Korg off at the slightest provocation -- and from that of a troll no less. That's pretty shameful.
At the end of the day, people won't care what the marketing says. They'll go to the store, play the Kronos, decide if they like it, and if they do, find a way to pony up for one. End of story.
Anyway, why exactly why would any Korg rep mention Oasys when talking about the Kronos? I mean, why should they? What would the point be? Whom would it satisfy? What greater good would it do?
To re up on Sina's car analogy, when the new year rolls around and car companies begin advertising their new models, do they talk about their old models? There's only one answer to that question, and it rhymes with "no". And why should they talk about last year's models? They're not making them anymore. Dig?
On another tack, not many people ever knew about the Oasys, just like not many people were familiar with Yamaha's DX1, though they were more than familiar with the DX7 and the TX816. So re selling the Kronos, there wouldn't be much point in comparing it to a keyboard (the big O) that didn't achieve popularity in numbers or name, despite the similarities. I'm pretty sure that Korg wouldn't want people going, "O-what-sys? Oh, that thing. I never really gave it much thought because it was so expensive."
IMO, Rich F. (who I haven't known for very long but seems like a "very honest chap") is doing a great job, not only by talking straight about the Kronos, but he's also doing all truly interested members of this forum a HUGE favor by providing personalized answers to your questions. Yet many members of this forum are more than happy to slag him and Korg off at the slightest provocation -- and from that of a troll no less. That's pretty shameful.
At the end of the day, people won't care what the marketing says. They'll go to the store, play the Kronos, decide if they like it, and if they do, find a way to pony up for one. End of story.
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Rosen Sound
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That post in itself should be a sticky!peter_schwartz wrote:Ricky and McHale are spot on here. There is no crime, there is no deception. There's not even an issue! All we have here is a troll who made some disparaging remarks (which is all that guy ever seems to do anyway) and for some reason his comments have sparked some rather distasteful banter about the company and the very people who visit this forum to provide personalized answers to your questions. Egads, man.
Anyway, why exactly why would any Korg rep mention Oasys when talking about the Kronos? I mean, why should they? What would the point be? Whom would it satisfy? What greater good would it do?
To re up on Sina's car analogy, when the new year rolls around and car companies begin advertising their new models, do they talk about their old models? There's only one answer to that question, and it rhymes with "no". And why should they talk about last year's models? They're not making them anymore. Dig?
On another tack, not many people ever knew about the Oasys, just like not many people were familiar with Yamaha's DX1, though they were more than familiar with the DX7 and the TX816. So re selling the Kronos, there wouldn't be much point in comparing it to a keyboard (the big O) that didn't achieve popularity in numbers or name, despite the similarities. I'm pretty sure that Korg wouldn't want people going, "O-what-sys? Oh, that thing. I never really gave it much thought because it was so expensive."
IMO, Rich F. (who I haven't known for very long but seems like a "very honest chap") is doing a great job, not only by talking straight about the Kronos, but he's also doing all truly interested members of this forum a HUGE favor by providing personalized answers to your questions. Yet many members of this forum are more than happy to slag him and Korg off at the slightest provocation -- and from that of a troll no less. That's pretty shameful.
At the end of the day, people won't care what the marketing says. They'll go to the store, play the Kronos, decide if they like it, and if they do, find a way to pony up for one. End of story.
+10000
Also, great analogy with the DX1/7! Very true!
Also, please everyone dont be fooled. I was AT NAMM. EVERY DAY. AND WENT TO EVERY KRONOS PRESENTATION (they were all spectacular)
AND THEY DID
DID
DID
MENTION OASYS
<a href="http://www.rosensound.com"><img src="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/365 ... r.jpg"></a>
Current gear: Korg Kronos 61, Oberheim OB-8, Alesis Vortex
Past Gear: Triton Extreme w/moss & ram, Korg Radias, Kurzweil Micropiano, Triton classic, & Karma
Come visit my Burbank California repair shop/recording studio! Rosensound.com
And my band: Sirion.us.com
Current gear: Korg Kronos 61, Oberheim OB-8, Alesis Vortex
Past Gear: Triton Extreme w/moss & ram, Korg Radias, Kurzweil Micropiano, Triton classic, & Karma
Come visit my Burbank California repair shop/recording studio! Rosensound.com
And my band: Sirion.us.com
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Kevin Nolan
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I don't want to create bad will here - this is a magnificent forum and we're all excited about a magnificent instrument. As a proud OASYS user who noticed Korg very proud of that instrument over the years - I just felt it very odd that it was ignored completely during the launch of Kronos - the lack of mention was _very_ obvious to many OASYS users - and as said it suggests something questionable. I felt it worth flagging but I'll leave it at that - as said I find this forum truly excellent and you are correct Peter - Rich comes across very well, as does of course Dan and other Korg and related personnel who provide unprecedented communications, unlike many other large technology companies.
So my best regards to all - apologies if I've brought the tone of the forum down too far - but ask you to bare in mind that I do feel there is a genuine and curious point that is glaring to OASYS users.
cheers,
Kevin.
So my best regards to all - apologies if I've brought the tone of the forum down too far - but ask you to bare in mind that I do feel there is a genuine and curious point that is glaring to OASYS users.
cheers,
Kevin.
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Rosen Sound
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But they did mention oasys, just not in the launch video. At NAMM they, and the artist preforming, did mention oasys on numerous occasions. I HIGHLY doubt this is any sort of conspiracy
<a href="http://www.rosensound.com"><img src="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/365 ... r.jpg"></a>
Current gear: Korg Kronos 61, Oberheim OB-8, Alesis Vortex
Past Gear: Triton Extreme w/moss & ram, Korg Radias, Kurzweil Micropiano, Triton classic, & Karma
Come visit my Burbank California repair shop/recording studio! Rosensound.com
And my band: Sirion.us.com
Current gear: Korg Kronos 61, Oberheim OB-8, Alesis Vortex
Past Gear: Triton Extreme w/moss & ram, Korg Radias, Kurzweil Micropiano, Triton classic, & Karma
Come visit my Burbank California repair shop/recording studio! Rosensound.com
And my band: Sirion.us.com
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ozy
Italians are in most cases excellent drivers. They are deft at bypassing road hogs, sleeping-at-the-wheel old farmers, multitasking suv-driving soccer moms, on roads which look like Monaco-chicane-meets-recently-bombed-dirt-roadMcHale wrote:Don't even get me STARTED on Italian drivers...
As far as parking is concerned, on the other hand...
At this point I should mention Israeli women...
but I can't, since I am currently discussing the Kronos' budget with my wife and...
