Did I buy the wrong synth?

Allegory · Post by **Allegory** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:00 am

Cool pad, Axxim! It ended up sounding a little like the intro to Clockwork Orange minus the upper-scale lead notes.

axxim · Post by **axxim** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:15 am

Thx Allegory,

I will upload it in the next update, when tpantano has created it's own

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:47 am

axxim wrote:Thx Allegory,

I will upload it in the next update, when tpantano has created it's own

Aww, no hints ;P?

axxim · Post by **axxim** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:50 am

Hi tpantano,

first tell me your opinion about the sound and the R3? Does this fullfills your expectations?

Hint#1: My patch uses no unison or layered timbres which means it is 8 voice polyphonic

Hint#2: As you surely have noted, it is based on strings = saw

Question? : Do you think this sound has much or few resonance(s) in the filter(s)! (feels like school, ehh?

)

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:43 pm

Axxim!
that sound is incredible. so very rich.

did you use octave detuning?
did you use the comb filter?

I have trouble imagining that. I'm not at my radias right now though. I guess there are also IFX involved.

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:52 pm

axxim wrote:Hi tpantano,
first tell me your opinion about the sound and the R3? Does this fullfills your expectations?

More than fulfills.

Hint#1: My patch uses no unison or layered timbres which means it is 8 voice poliphonic

0.o
My first patches I tried out used unison and double timbres, how you made that with 1 timbre..... amazing. I'll have to keep trying.

Hint#2: As you surely have noted, it is based on strings = saw

Err, probably shoulda got that. Forgot that timbres with a lot of texture (strings, brass) use a saw. Was originally thinking a sine because of how damp it was, but it didn't sound right.

Question? : Do you think this sound has much or few resonance(s) in the filter(s)! (feels like school, ehh? )

I'm guessing a medium amount? It seems like cutoff is low yet it feels pronounced, so I'm thinking thats more resonance.

axxim · Post by **axxim** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:04 pm

Hi,

first clarify something to me because now I am confused: do you have a R3 or a Radias or both?

To your questions:
- Yes IFX is used because it is what gives the spatiality of the sound
- A suboscilltor is used too to widen (thik) the spectrum
- Filtering: resonance is zero, otherwise it would "tune" the sound to the filter settings giving more accent but narrowing the sounds spectrum

Of course if the R3 had more than 8 voices I had layered or used unison sounds

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:52 pm

axxim wrote:Hi,

first clarify something to me because now I am confused: do you have a R3 or a Radias or both?

To your questions:
- Yes IFX is used because it is what gives the spatiality of the sound
- A suboscilltor is used too to widen (thik) the spectrum
- Filtering: resonance is zero, otherwise it would "tune" the sound to the filter settings giving more accent but narrowing the sounds spectrum

Of course if the R3 had more than 8 voices I had layered or used unison sounds

Nope, just an R3. I linked some Radias clips because R3 clips are few, most being of the presets.

Hmm, so what exactly does resonance do? My very, very, very basic understanding is that it emphasizes the harmonics near the cutoff point...

Oh, also, what is the first chord in the song?

Is it F G# C on the left and F C D# on the right? I can't really see what the guys playing from the vid, but that sounds about right.

I may not be able to finish this right as everything is very washed out through the amp.... And unfortunately my Mac, a computer targeted at artists such as musicians, doesn't have a duplex recording sound card >.<

Hopefully that will change soon with the upcoming holiday, I may be able to get some nice studio

, and a duplex sound card

meh, its going to be impossible to record without duplex.... what was apple thinking...

axxim · Post by **axxim** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:20 am

Ok I have to clarify something:

I melted two different posts to one in my last answer:

to X-Trade:
Thank you. No, no comb filter. The comb is great if you want to get a harsh (don't know if thats the right expression for a sounds like metal against metal without oil or chalk on the blackboard) characteristic. I tried to use it here but it rather disturbed a little the "sound flow" if you know what I mean. It's only LPF. And you are the one with the Radias not near to you which I tought Tpantano was.
It would be nice to have a radias <-> r3 converter to interchange patches!

Maybe a screen shot of my soundeditor will help for that. If so let me know

to tpantano:
Sorry, the confusion about your synth was mine as stated above.
Your basics are right. How to hear If a sound has more or less resonance is hard to tell. As higher the resonance, the closer to a sine wave (with the filters center frequency) the sound will be.
It is something you aquire with experience on testing with sounds and synths. The best way is, as told in another post, you go with one simple oscillator and try each basic waves saw, pulse and noise and then play with the filter settings to get an idea what the resonance does. This will help you to learn the relationship to the filter settings.
For example if you raise only noise on the oscillator, select LPF24 and raise the resonance to max you will have a whistle which frequency depends on the cutoff setting (which is also called the center frequency of a filter)

axxim · Post by **axxim** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:35 am

Oh, also, what is the first chord in the song?

Is it F G# C on the left and F C D# on the right? I can't really see what the guys playing from the vid, but that sounds about right.

First chord (for me) is only C on the left and F C D# on the right.

Is I said I'm not a good "live" player, so I did it as MIDI-file.

Regarding the second link you gave me (grape), try this one

http://www.net4ces.de/media/VoicePad-2.r3p

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:57 am

axxim wrote:
Oh, also, what is the first chord in the song?

Is it F G# C on the left and F C D# on the right? I can't really see what the guys playing from the vid, but that sounds about right.
First chord (for me) is only C on the left and F C D# on the right.

Is I said I'm not a good "live" player, so I did it as MIDI-file.

Regarding the second link you gave me (grape), try this one

http://www.net4ces.de/media/VoicePad-2.r3p

:O

...
...
...

How many years have you been doing this?!?
Your Lady Gaga patches.... The Strawberry Avalanche patch.... The remake of the $2700 Virus Pad on a $600 Korg R3.... and your Grape patch...

All perfect replicas. You are simply amazing. I'm guessing your professional? If this your hobby, then..... WOW. I've never met someone this skilled, ever.

I might just have to buy some plane tickets to Germany to learn from a pro

So, on the topic of my replica of the Virus, I'm guessing I'm supposed to use an LPF24? It just sounds more like the sound using one, IDK the actual difference between 24 and 12.

Oh, and as another hint, could you tell me what effects you're using? Or, if that's too big of a giveaway, maybe what the effect is doing so that I can reverse engineer it? (ex, for a delay someone might say it's the effect that records and replays a sound gradually adjusting volume each time its replayed).

Yornav · Post by **Yornav** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:46 am

About the Virus and R3 issue... I own both. And yes the virus sounds less cheap or should I say with more definition. It is a fuller sound! And that is very normal. The technology used is more advanced in the virus. ( I own a virus TI2) And yes... virus can modulate much more then a R3 or Radias. But the vocoder is really CRAP. And so when you explore the world of synths you will see that because of materials used and software programmed in a different way. All synths have their own personal sound.
You gonna like more then one because you gonna love the personal aspect of them.

Of course... designing sounds like the presets you here demands a sertain discipline. Thats why I went to a academy for Sound Design. I really study allot. And patching things is not that easy like is looks!

The R3 and Radias are very profound synths. So take your time to explore. And save money for good monitors in the first place. Because without a good sound system you'll never here whats really going on.

Experience is the best teacher!

Yornav · Post by **Yornav** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:51 am

it's gonna take YEARS!

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:12 am

I'd like to add, you'll probably get a better sound for synth programming and playing from a cheap PC or home theatre speaker system than you will from a guitar amp.

The guitar amp can be useful, if you want to achieve a specific lead or other sound, but it won't get you anywhere else. In fact with the amp simulation effects on the synth you could argue that it is still a bit redundant.

axxim · Post by **axxim** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:16 pm

tpantano wrote: How many years have you been doing this?!?

All perfect replicas. You are simply amazing. I'm guessing your professional? If this your hobby, then..... WOW. I've never met someone this skilled, ever.

So, on the topic of my replica of the Virus, I'm guessing I'm supposed to use an LPF24? It just sounds more like the sound using one, IDK the actual difference between 24 and 12.

Oh, and as another hint, could you tell me what effects you're using? Or, if that's too big of a giveaway, maybe what the effect is doing so that I can reverse engineer it? (ex, for a delay someone might say it's the effect that records and replays a sound gradually adjusting volume each time its replayed).

My first synth was about 33 years ago, a Yamaha CS-15. My profession is electronic engineer but nothing to do with sound or music.
Sound and music are one of several hobbies. About filtering and synthesis I got my experience programming a DSP-vocoder (very similar to the one in the R3/Radias). You can read more about this in my webpage.

The diff. between 12 and 24 are the decibells per octave (dB/oct.). In the case of the low pass filter (LPF) it tells how is the relation between the output response at the cutoff frequency(Fc) and the output one octave above (the signals the filter should attenuate). If you pass a sine wave with the frequency equal to Fc (i.e. 440Hz) thru a filter tuned to this frequency and then another sine one octave higher (which means 2*Fc = 880Hz) then the relation between the two outputs (division from the first by the second) is 12dB or 24dB. This relation is often called "Gain". A value of 6dB means the first value is the double of the second (gain =2), 12dB means quadruple, 24db means 16 times (dB is a logarithmic scaling).

Resuming the more dB's a filter has, the better is its capability to let pass the selected Fc frequencies and attenuate all others. For the HPF (Hi pass) the relation is against one octave below and for a BPF (Band Pass) the relation is toward both sides. A BPF can be seen as a junction or sum of a LPF and HPF with the same Fc.

So depending on how much or less do you want to reject the high frequencies with the LPF, you can select the filter gain. In the R3 this can be done seamless (at least for filter 1) which is new for me and an additional point for Korg.

Wow! it's hard to explain these things this way. I hope you dont get too confused by this!

About the effects I could tell you a little more too but not now... it would be to extensive!
The effects I used for the pad are: Ensemble and Stereo Modulation Delay