OASYS - end of the Workstation, or lead to M1 level sales?

[Stralner]

Here is my 2 cent.

What if...I´m not saying it´s easy, BUT what if you could build in a feature that can take a sampel and convert it in to a program by it self?

You can do this know but what if it was from a ...do you call it a spectral analyse? Anyway I think you know what I mean. (Bad english) And the program would recreate the sound in the synth options.

I think that would be cool...imagine how nice it would be to be able to recreate the sound of something you have listen to and and just make it a program with all the edit possibilities. It would take away the fun for some but make the workflow pretty cool for others.

[sirCombatWombat]

So I suppose another approach to my question is – is OASYS, wart and all, a valid pointer to the future of worthwhile hardware synthesizers, or is it time to wind all that down in the face of cheap and free of charge Softsynths and DAWs? To me, its a no brainer – OASYS is vital and central; but I’ve found too often that I’m out of alignment with the general consensus.

I too have noticed that I'm often out of alignment with the general consensus, but I think it's a good thing from the perspective of originality. The bad thing in that is that most development efforts of the industry goes in to the popular technologies. For example it's far more profitable to create a sub ten dollar mobile phone and sell it to India, China and Africa, than to create mobile masterpiece that does it all with a thousand. Fortunately for us there are people with a calling, who go to great lengths to create something great and unique like the OASYS. I feel privileged being able to be part of that.

I don't believe that hardware synths disappear, look at how the true analogs have been resurrected. There always will be the few with the calling.

[sirCombatWombat]

...
Sticking all the latest goodies in a workstation format which is a decade+ old, isn't great and doesn't work well with contemporary environments. And it isn't fun to use.

I didn't say it should all run on the computer, rather than on a real instrument ... I just want to have BOTH options

Daz.

What would you replace or change in the workstation format, if a dedicated hardware platform is still a requirement?

The main interest in a dedicated instrument for me is the integration, stability and availability.

[Kevin Nolan]

The main interest in a dedicated instrument for me is the integration, stability and availability.

I think you've just put your finger on the central point(s) to a hardware workstation.

Kevin.

[sirCombatWombat]

What if...I´m not saying it´s easy, BUT what if you could build in a feature that can take a sampel and convert it in to a program by it self?

You can do this know but what if it was from a ...do you call it a spectral analyse? Anyway I think you know what I mean. (Bad english) And the program would recreate the sound in the synth options.

Resynthesis can be done with spectral analysis and additive synthesis. The results vary greatly from software to software, but there are some pretty convincing ones too. As I said earlier in this thread, I think additive synthesis would really complement the OASYS sonically. Resynthesis on top of that would be the proverbial icing on the cake.

By the way, the new Image-Line soft synth Ogun (The patron of blacksmiths in Vodun, a pre Voodoo west African and Haitian religion ) looks promising. http://www.image-line.com/documents/ogun.html. Especially the bass in the sample (5/6) Aarni Gratseff - Ogun Theme sounds great.

[Kevin Nolan]

Let's take sirCombatWombat's key words and apply the proverbial sledgehammer to the nut so:

- If an OASYS2 had the followig features:

--- All existing OASYS features
--- ME Expanded Sequencer
--- Dual or Quad Core processor
--- USB/Firewire connectivity to computer
--- Librarian
--- DAW Plugin Capability
--- Bundled KO software
--- Motorised faders and DAW control templates for Logic / Cubase...
--- Other options such as Radias / Legacy Digital ...

... ie - all current Korg features combined into an updated OASYS; and which cost no more than say - $5000 -

- would that do it - would they sell, say 20,000 or even 30,000 units?
- would people owning an original OASYS feel agrieved?


Kevin.

[Kevin Nolan]

Actually - something else comes to mind - which Mike Conway and sirCombatWombat have already been exploring, but if fully exploited would indeed be a new definition of what 'Open Architecture Synthesis' could come to mean:

- easy and transparent routing of one synthesis engine into another. Perhaps even extend Daz's modularity where you could link together synthesizer engines, insert EXf's into the synthesizer signal path...

Such flexability could be significant if not unique; fully realising OASYs's potential and name sake.

[fallingman]

Right now I'd like them in my computer when I am recording or in a performance box (i.e. keyboard + controllers + screen) that I can just play as a live/performance instrument.

I would have preferred to buy an AU or VSTi shell in which I can choose to buy/install the Korg technology I like. Or a box like an M50 into which I can also choose to load the components I want. Those components would be synth engines, effects, a sequencer, Karma etc.

Sounds like you're talking about REASON a little...

Just my 2c too...

[Daz]

Sounds like you're talking about REASON a little...

I love that Thor synth ... that is very strong indeed

I'd been meaning to ask Wombat if he had tried that, because I figured it would be very much his bag.

[sirCombatWombat]

Actually - something else comes to mind - which Mike Conway and sirCombatWombat have already been exploring, but if fully exploited would indeed be a new definition of what 'Open Architecture Synthesis' could come to mean:

- easy and transparent routing of one synthesis engine into another. Perhaps even extend Daz's modularity where you could link together synthesizer engines, insert EXf's into the synthesizer signal path...

Such flexability could be significant if not unique; fully realising OASYs's potential and name sake.

Yes, this would be very powerful. And if done multitimbrally, words would be not enough to describe.

[sirCombatWombat]

I'd been meaning to ask Wombat if he had tried that, because I figured it would be very much his bag.

In fact no I haven't, and I went straight to Reasons web site to watch the video after reading your message. But, does it do anything the OASYS does not already do?

I have watched Arturias plugins with great interest, any take on those? Especially the Moog Modular, Yamaha CS-80, and ARP2600.

I'm also searching for a good sprectral processing software or plugin and additive and granular synthesis plugins.

[sirCombatWombat]

Let's take sirCombatWombat's key words and apply the proverbial sledgehammer to the nut so:

- If an OASYS2 had the followig features:

--- All existing OASYS features
--- ME Expanded Sequencer
--- Dual or Quad Core processor
--- USB/Firewire connectivity to computer
--- Librarian
--- DAW Plugin Capability
--- Bundled KO software
--- Motorised faders and DAW control templates for Logic / Cubase...
--- Other options such as Radias / Legacy Digital ...

... ie - all current Korg features combined into an updated OASYS; and which cost no more than say - $5000 -

- would that do it - would they sell, say 20,000 or even 30,000 units?
- would people owning an original OASYS feel agrieved?


Kevin.

I don't know what to say here, it has to do with so many other variables. Like current economic state in various big markets around the world, like US going in to recession and how it would affect the rest of the world, and Japan already being in recession for over 10 years. Current trends, which I think are against in favor of software and cheap controllers (The big sellers of late didn't have so much competition.). And I think that $5K would not cover the development costs.

Smartest move in my view would be to continue developing the current software, because the hardware has still much room for it to grow. And as far as we know, Korg is doing just that. And that is great!

Btw. I think that the polyphonic routing of different engines (and that includes the program editing capability in combi mode) would be more important than all the features in the above list combined.

[Kevin Nolan]

Let's take sirCombatWombat's key words and apply the proverbial sledgehammer to the nut so:

- If an OASYS2 had the followig features:

--- All existing OASYS features
--- ME Expanded Sequencer
--- Dual or Quad Core processor
--- USB/Firewire connectivity to computer
--- Librarian
--- DAW Plugin Capability
--- Bundled KO software
--- Motorised faders and DAW control templates for Logic / Cubase...
--- Other options such as Radias / Legacy Digital ...

... ie - all current Korg features combined into an updated OASYS; and which cost no more than say - $5000 -

- would that do it - would they sell, say 20,000 or even 30,000 units?
- would people owning an original OASYS feel agrieved?


Kevin.

I don't know what to say here, it has to do with so many other variables. Like current economic state in various big markets around the world, like US going in to recession and how it would affect the rest of the world, and Japan already being in recession for over 10 years. Current trends, which I think are against in favor of software and cheap controllers (The big sellers of late didn't have so much competition.). And I think that $5K would not cover the development costs.

Smartest move in my view would be to continue developing the current software, because the hardware has still much room for it to grow. And as far as we know, Korg is doing just that. And that is great!

Btw. I think that the polyphonic routing of different engines (and that includes the program editing capability in combi mode) would be more important than all the features in the above list combined.

Well, I'm not convinced that the current economic down turn is the reason why current workstations are not selling in DX7 and M1 numbers . It's surely to do with the on-slaught of apparently more attractive DAW 'pcakages' which are more flexible overall, except for live scenarios.

But I do feel that, broadly speaking, it's interesting that many on this forum, myself included, have (rightly) expressed concend over the end of OASYS; when in fact we realise that Korg is incredibly close to an ideal instrument. Hence my prodding here was to consider an 'ideal' future where future workstations would once again inspire hundreds of thousands of players - and to suggest (and ask here) whether Korg may indeed be close?

The list above - including all current no-compormised OASYS and M3 features, significant DAW interaction and, say, nord-stage type pianos (as indeed seemingly refelected/acknowledged in M3 Expandeds piano sound set) and all at a very affordable price - could once again be an attractive prospect to tens of thousands of users or more across DAW/Studio work to live performance.

I accept that your polyphonic synth routing would make for a very attractive feature; but I do not accept that it would spark a revolution in sales. Surely that would be a single (albeit important) feature? But I do feel that if Korg were to package the very best and most felxible package; as well as the advanced features (and integration) you mention, at a sub $5000 price point; it would become a very, very desirable instrument.

I am with you in wanting very sophisticated synthesis capabilities as you point out; but OASYS already offers much of this and frankly it has not been a reason for people to buy - especially then you have the likes of Komplete 5 and Omnisphere at far more attractive prices.

Kevin.

[sirCombatWombat]

I accept that your polyphonic synth routing would make for a very attractive feature; but I do not accept that it would spark a revolution in sales. Surely that would be a single (albeit important) feature? But I do feel that if Korg were to package the very best and most felxible package; as well as the advanced features (and integration) you mention, at a sub $5000 price point; it would become a very, very desirable instrument.

I am with you in wanting very sophisticated synthesis capabilities as you point out; but OASYS already offers much of this and frankly it has not been a reason for people to buy - especially then you have the likes of Komplete 5 and Omnisphere at far more attractive prices.

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that the routing would be the selling point for the thousands, but that it is the most important prospect to the sound creation ability of the OASYS.

To me it seems that the M3 is Korgs effort at what you describe, but reality prevents that amount of features. Does anyone have an estimate to M3 sales, I wager that they have already surpassed OASYS? That is simply an affordability issue, and the fact that the M3 has a awesome big brother to derive features and reputation from. But the competition is tough, I hope Korg prevails.

But lets get back to the initial subject, what feature would make the difference.
What about surround mixing, with the possibility to purchase a Dolby encoding license. The joystick would make a perfect surround pan pot, and there are enough outputs. And perhaps a support for external USB DVD writer for 48Khz 24bit 5.1 DVD-A tracks.

[kenackr]

SirCombatWombat,

What about surround mixing, with the possibility to purchase a Dolby encoding license. The joystick would make a perfect surround pan pot, and there are enough outputs.

My opinion is that while surround sound is certainly hot in home theater and other video applications, that it's probably not the feature that would sway the average keyboard person to buy the unit. Most average users are either going stereo to CD, Tape, or DVD for music recodings and not linking up with video.

When you take into account those who play live, stereo is about as far as it goes right now. Lots of bands are still stuck in mono too (old habits die hard).

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be a cool feature to have, but I just don't think that by itself would draw the masses.

Like many marketing challenges, it's crucial to understand the market segments and each of their individual needs/wants, as well as the demographics of each and the associated cultures for each segment.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there probably isn't one workstation / keyboard that would fit all market segments. The proof of that is right here on this forum with the mix of owners and guests that cover the waterfront in musical tastes. How many trombones and strings do you find in the hiphop and related segments? Same question for the old & the new country segment. And on adnauseum.

Maybe the thing for Korg to do is break the instrument into configurable modules like Daz was suggesting so you could order your own to your own tastes. "Ok I want the symphonic module and the prog rock module and the jazz & fusion module, with the Carribean music module too."

In other words, pick your genres and build your custom O to them.

Heck, I'd buy it if it had surround sound too!

Ken