M3 vs Triton Extreme in Sound Quality

[sparkie]

Funny. you mention a D-50. A pawn shop here just got one , so I played it and the sounds were quite good..but damn I was through hearing all the sounds in 5 minutes?

[Gonga]

Those who own both - could you compare digital artifacts with the pitch bend? I find the artifacts with high frequency pitch bends to be absolutely terrible with my TEX. I have yet to hear any modern digital synth do quality, silky smooth high frequency pitch bends the way my old analog synths could, and I hate them for it.

Yeah, I'm old school.

[GregC]

Those who own both - could you compare digital artifacts with the pitch bend? I find the artifacts with high frequency pitch bends to be absolutely terrible with my TEX. I have yet to hear any modern digital synth do quality, silky smooth high frequency pitch bends the way my old analog synths could, and I hate them for it.

Yeah, I'm old school.

I am not sure what you are hearing

I have the Extreme and M3M.

Tell me what Extreme programs you are referring to

[Gonga]

Put on headphones. I hear digital zipping when I bend pitch with every program sound at high frequencies. I hear exactly the same thing with my Novation X-Station. When I use the TEX to control my minimoog Voyager, I get the same effect. If you've never heard how smooth an analog pitch bend can sound, you might not notice. I use the pitch bender for vibrato also (not the LFO), and the quick wavering of the vibrato sounds awful on my TEX. I hear a stepping artifact and also a form of intermodulation distortion that sounds a bit like radio frequency modulation.

[muziksculp]

I find the M3's sounds quality quite dependent on the effects the you set-up in the M3.

For example, the total effects (TFX) which are kind of your mastering effects, can make a huge difference as to how the M3 sounds. That in addition to the insert, and master effects. (how much you apply to each sound, and what you apply).

The effects engine of the M3 is very high-quality, and has a lot to do with the first impression of how the M3 sounds.

When I first got my M3, my impression of the sounds was, "They are just OK", but once I began working with customizing the effects (IFX, MFX, TFX), the M3 sounded so much better, almost like having another keyboard !

So, don't be fooled by the first impression of the M3's sound quality, the M3's effects engine is a crucial component of the M3, and can make a major impact on how the M3 sounds.

Hope this is useful info.

Enjoy your M3 !

[Gonga]

As to the TEX's artifacts, I wanted to add that it is most apparent when listening to pure tones such as A11, especially at higher frequencies.

But what's even more aggravating is that when I control the minimoog with the Korg, the artifacting is even more apparent - on every high frequency sound. I'm not sure why, but apparently the complex wave files can tend to mask the artifacts a bit better than the purer analog oscillators.

[GregC]

Put on headphones. I hear digital zipping when I bend pitch with every program sound at high frequencies. I hear exactly the same thing with my Novation X-Station. When I use the TEX to control my minimoog Voyager, I get the same effect. If you've never heard how smooth an analog pitch bend can sound, you might not notice. I use the pitch bender for vibrato also (not the LFO), and the quick wavering of the vibrato sounds awful on my TEX. I hear a stepping artifact and also a form of intermodulation distortion that sounds a bit like radio frequency modulation.

I question if its a ' stepping artifact '. Then again all I don't have any pure analog like you do, to compare with.

I have the XS, M3M and Extreme. I compared several synth sounds on all 3, using pitch bend

What is common on all 3 are the ' tuning beats' as you raise and lower the pitch. I do hear some extra vibrato on some Extreme synth programs

[ashboe]

I find the M3's sounds quality quite dependent on the effects the you set-up in the M3.

For example, the total effects (TFX) which are kind of your mastering effects, can make a huge difference as to how the M3 sounds. That in addition to the insert, and master effects. (how much you apply to each sound, and what you apply).

The effects engine of the M3 is very high-quality, and has a lot to do with the first impression of how the M3 sounds.

When I first got my M3, my impression of the sounds was, "They are just OK", but once I began working with customizing the effects (IFX, MFX, TFX), the M3 sounded so much better, almost like having another keyboard !

So, don't be fooled by the first impression of the M3's sound quality, the M3's effects engine is a crucial component of the M3, and can make a major impact on how the M3 sounds.

Hope this is useful info.

Enjoy your M3 !

Thanks for this interesting post - and I am absolutely sure you are correct (not least because I have heard others say it). Not wanting to come accross as a complete noob(!) but could you detail perhaps one keyboard sound with your total effects then I could set that sopund up the same way and hear the difference. This would be exceptionally useful so I could aurally pay attention to what you have done, and more importantly, why you have done it - it would also give me confidence to making alterations to other sounds. I would appreciate this (as I am sure some others would) because not everyone knows the difference between the various EQ settings and effects settings. Not looking for you to do an indepth article or tutorial - just something to get me started.
Many thanks in advance
sean

[Gonga]

I question if its a ' stepping artifact '. Then again all I don't have any pure analog like you do, to compare with.

I have the XS, M3M and Extreme. I compared several synth sounds on all 3, using pitch bend

What is common on all 3 are the ' tuning beats' as you raise and lower the pitch. I do hear some extra vibrato on some Extreme synth programs

Your thoughts are good ones, but why would there be tuning beats when using a single pure oscillator, such as with the mini?

[GregC]

I question if its a ' stepping artifact '. Then again all I don't have any pure analog like you do, to compare with.

I have the XS, M3M and Extreme. I compared several synth sounds on all 3, using pitch bend

What is common on all 3 are the ' tuning beats' as you raise and lower the pitch. I do hear some extra vibrato on some Extreme synth programs

Your thoughts are good ones, but why would there be tuning beats when using a single pure oscillator, such as with the mini?

I don't know. Since I am really guessing here, how about a guess that the
' tuning beats ' are the various multi samples jumping around in response to the pitch bend ?

If I can force myself into a Guitar Center, I will try the same test on a Mini-Moog

[Synthoid]

If I can force myself into a Guitar Center, I will try the same test on a Mini-Moog

Our GC doesn't carry any Moog products.

[Gonga]

I get what sounds like digital zipping when I set the mini to only a single oscillator with a very pure tone. The problem I think is midi control of the pitch bend. That's why I want to get a voltage controller joystick.

[GregC]

If I can force myself into a Guitar Center, I will try the same test on a Mini-Moog

Our GC doesn't carry any Moog products.

try Best Buy

[tritonlover2000]

Anyway, I was going to buy the M3 today, but found the sound quality rather lacking (I listened through the same headphones I use for my Triton Extreme). I heard what others said about the combi volume levels not being high enough, effects not being added as in Triton Extreme to give the 'polish'...Well, I found most Combis on M3 had volume up to 127 for most of the parts, and also similar effects as the Triton Extreme with the same settings/level were present on the M3: BPM St Delay, Stereo Compression, 7-band EQ, etc.

Yet, the sounds were more cold and digital sounding, especially the filters. Triton Extreme has more bite, warmth, depth and aggressiveness. It seems like the inherent nature of the M3 is to be digital and cold.

I have owned many Korg gear, and I found the Trinity and Triton so far to be the best workstations (Oasys sounds great but its price tag prevented me from upgrading to it).

On the plus side, M3 sounds somewhat more realistic than the Triton Extreme...which don't matter because I have Yamaha Motif.

Its strange but I am disappointed with all the new keyboards (m3, motif xs, and the new fantom-g); in comparison, the ES, Triton Extreme and Fantom-X were innovations that stood in a class of its own.
Triton Extreme had MOSS option, Motif ES had AN,DX,VL expansions and Fantom-X had multi-sampling (Fantom-G doesn't afaik).

Wonder why these big manufacturers are reducing the quality of their workstations: are they planning to stop making hardware and go all software?? Software is great, but I hate the fact that I have to buy so many things to make a reliable computer system, and its still not as good as dedicated hardware for reliability. (Openlabs is way too expensive).

[GregC]

Anyway, I was going to buy the M3 today, but found the sound quality rather lacking (I listened through the same headphones I use for my Triton Extreme). I

Yet, the sounds were more cold and digital sounding, especially the filters. Triton Extreme has more bite, warmth, depth and aggressiveness. It seems like the inherent nature of the M3 is to be digital and cold.

Its strange but I am disappointed with all the new keyboards (m3, motif xs, and the new fantom-g); in comparison, the ES, Triton Extreme and Fantom-X were innovations that stood in a class of its own.
Triton Extreme had MOSS option, Motif ES had AN,DX,VL expansions and Fantom-X had multi-sampling (Fantom-G doesn't afaik).

Wonder why these big manufacturers are reducing the quality of their workstations: .

your ears were having a bad day