Proposal - User Community Funding for New Features

some1uk03 · Post by **some1uk03** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:06 pm

Not to sound harsh, but for the price we paid for these keyboards, a software should have been available by KORG in the 1st place, is what i think.

or atleast provide a .dll free of charge so that us users can create our own managing software.

akyboy · Post by **akyboy** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:10 am

some1uk03 wrote:Not to sound harsh, but for the price we paid for these keyboards, a software should have been available by KORG in the 1st place, is what i think.

or atleast provide a .dll free of charge so that us users can create our own managing software.

I totaly agree 300% ... but the thing is that they cant even fix what they made, not to talk about they make something new.... just to let you guys know , i sold pa2x for 2000, so lost around 2000, but i have a gig this weekend and i will make around 2500, instead of loosing a gig because of peace of crap i just sold it and i will continue making money with my old keyboard wich is working just the same as it worked 4 years ago!!,.... Its not Korg for sure and there was never an update made for this one!!!

KORG should acctualy make donatios for YOU (no more me) for testing they OS and making money from other ppl,....

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:26 pm

OK - there are enough negative comments about this idea. It is now dropped and I will take it no further.

I'm very disappoointed in your responses, because I think it is a huge opportunity missed. Without user forum commitment and involvement, I think Korg will be unlikely to develop an open API interface for manipulating their proprietary file formats on a PC. Also, without the API/DLL from Korg, the forum can also say goodbye to either me or my colleague MickB being able to develop free PC based software for the Pa series keyboards.

worth · Post by **worth** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:05 pm

Thats a real shame but i think the commercial forces would be against this idea Rob from the outset. If Korg have given you an indication that they would actually run with this idea Rob then put it up on the forum and this might persuade some more support from the users. The timeing for this venture might be off Rob but the idea in principle has merit and is worth exploring. Dont drop it because of the lack of encourageing words. People are quite rightly upset that the pa800 and PA2X have been released with the kinds of serious bugs it had. We know that it will be sorted out but it does leave a bad taste in customers mouths and so you wont get a lot of good will towards Korg right now i suspect.

Try again when people are loving making music again with their instruments instead of being apprensive about the value of their purchase.

Rockitman · Post by **Rockitman** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:39 pm

I would support this type of user initiative.
I believe that this was a great idea, and possibly an opportunity missed.
Plus enough credit is not given to the folks who put in their time providing user and third party support for these instruments. I read a lot of posts, and see a lot of complaints. It is a shame, these are complicated yet fascinating instruments. Nothing is perfect in this world of ours, if it was, no one would appreciate it anyway. The true test of your talent is to rise above with what you have. Some things are going to disappoint you, that's when you have to face the tough decisions. However, they only make you stronger. Persistence will always pay off in the end.

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:12 pm

OK I'll leave the poll running, anticipating that at some time in the distant future there may once again be enough goodwill towards Korg from enough customers. I accept Worth's comment that my timing may not be great. If eventually I get 100 "yes" votes it will go ahead. There are currently 250 customers of the "Arranger Secrets" training DVD's. Come on people, speak up and cast your vote if you want this initiative to go ahead!!

If it goes ahead, I think the first thing we need to organise are the requirements for the API interface (in a dynamic linked library) for manipulating all versions of .SET files and their embedded (compressed) folders on a PC. Only Korg can produce this, and it is a real possibility they will do it if there is enough user support and interest behind it. This will then allow Mick Barry (mickb) to complete the development of the various utility programs he has offered to produce free of charge. It will also enable generation of other "public domain" software on a PC for managing style libraries and editing sounds and multisamples etc.

amiri · Post by **amiri** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:12 am

As a consumer I think korg should have done it right at first time. there is a same problem with all new PA series. Which is a memory problem.If I use more then 70% of the ram then I strat getting problem even I can not use !00% of the memory.The reason that I bought PA 800 was not to carry a sampler with myself. Unfortunately we all stuck with 64mb RAM which is not expendable. That should have been a consumer choice just like Roland product. Then korg came out with the PA2x just extended the ram to 120 and I’m not willing to pay another $2500.00 just for an extra 64MB of RAM .I don’t mind to pay for a features but not for something that I already paid.

Regard,

Amiri

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:29 am

Amiri and others. Please keep this thread on topic. Just to remind you, it is not entitled "lets all have a bitch and moan at Korg". Instead the thread is about the idea of building a requirements forum with one of the objectives being to persuade Korg to build an open API for manipulating .SET files including styles and sounds.

sound4sina · Post by **sound4sina** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:50 pm

Rob Sherratt wrote:Amiri and others. Please keep this thread on topic. Just to remind you, it is not entitled "lets all have a bitch and moan at Korg". Instead the thread is about the idea of building a requirements forum with one of the objectives being to persuade Korg to build an open API for manipulating .SET files including styles and sounds.

I actually don't think anyone is against your idea of the open API!
The only thing that keeps agitating people is KORG's way of handling their customers. Buggy OS, no well-informed customer service and faulty boards. Let's say your poll is 10% NO and 90% YES - what would be your next step towards the open API plan?
Can a KORG representative give us an OK and GO or is it just “let’s hope for the best, let us donate €20 000”? Your ideas are great Rob, but I am not sure whether a corporation like KORG is as motivated as you (or we) are on this matter?!

Give some concrete description of how we could involve KORG into this operation grand slam? I am willing to be a part of this, so don’t get me wrong. But be more specific, because your ideas are great and it might be a good chance to do something good out of all this with help of trustworthy and ambitious forum members!

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:32 pm

sound4sina wrote:Can a KORG representative give us an OK and GO or is it just “let’s hope for the best, let us donate €20 000”? Your ideas are great Rob, but I am not sure whether a corporation like KORG is as motivated as you (or we) are on this matter?! Give some concrete description of how we could involve KORG into this operation grand slam? I am willing to be a part of this, so don’t get me wrong. But be more specific, because your ideas are great and it might be a good chance to do something good out of all this with help of trustworthy and ambitious forum members!

Well, as you might expect, the "Arranger Secrets" DVD project earned us a large amount of good will from people in Korg, right up through the management chain to Japan. They were surprised that something like this can be done by co-operation from members of a user forum. There is a lot happening which I can't discuss, but one thing I am at liberty to say is that Korg have offered to support Mick Barry (MickB) in his development of public domain software. As you know Mick's first project is to develop a librarian for .SET files, merging, cataloging and re-mapping. It was Korg's idea to develop a DLL file with an open API to handle the interface into style files, sound files and the like. In fact the idea came from the head of development in Korg. However this development has low priority because Korg do not know whether the user community are behind it. Korg have not requested any money for developing the DLL/API. However in order to demonstrate user commitment and get this prioritized I think we should each be prepared to stump up 100 Euros. I suspect Korg will not take the money in which case the money will never be requested from those who gave a commitment to it!

SarajevoPA800 · Post by **SarajevoPA800** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:05 am

Hi Rob. May I please ask you for some clarification. I read people's comments, but the post is very long and some of the comments are making the topic very unclear. Could you please clarify the following for me:

1. You are asking us, each, 100 Euros for some type of a membership to a group to which Korg will contribute new features for the OS? (Does it include both the owner's of PA800 and PA2X or just PA2X?)

2. Who would be requesting and getting these new OS features (just the people/members who paid or everyone)?

3. What kind/type of features would these be, just simple bug fixes or complete NEW features (for example AM/FM Tuner

)?

4. Is 100 Euros the ONLY thing you need, from each of us, to get this project started or is there something else required from us (beacuse you keep asking us for support and I do not know how else we can support you except by giving you the money)?

5. How much money is required to start this project?

6. This software that Mick Barry is working on, will it be for both the PA800 and PA2X users?

This is my opinion about "what I understood in this topic." I am very supportive of this idea if these 100 Euros would bring me new OS features, or new PC software. Most people, whenever a money payment is requested, they refuse the proposed idea and I believe that is the only reason why you are getting negative comments from everyone else, Money. Isn't it better and cheaper to pay 100Euro and get new features than to go and buy a completely new arranger? Anyways, I am very supportive of your idea and I believe something like this should have been done earlier, and people don't realize that yet. They keep complaining about how KORG stole their moeny. Well, I strongly believe that KORG is the best arranger company out there. They are building some very professional insturments for very affordable prices. Ok, they are not cheap but not expensive either. Now, some of us who owned the PA80 know that there was a lot more that could have been done for that arranger, feature wise, we were just lacking the support. I am a software engineer and I know that there are a lot of other members on this forum who are also computer programmers, can you imagine how many cool PC applications this project would help us create. Sorry for my English writting, it is my second language.

Mickb · Post by **Mickb** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:05 am

Hi SarajevoPA800

To answer one of your questions

6. This software that Mick Barry is working on, will it be for both the PA800 and PA2X users?

The software I am working on is being designed for all PA series keyboards i.e PA50/PA60/PA80/PA1X/PA2X/PA800 !!!

even though I have to admit that I dont have any PA?? keyboard myself( I have an Is40) the main incentive for me starting to work on the software was frustration with programming and setting up my friends various keyboards over the years and having to spend hours editing styles transfered from the Is40 to his PA80 originally and then on to his PA1x Pro. This has gotten worse for me with the introduction of the PA2X and PA800 and the problems faced with downloading styles created with user sounds and loading them unto the PA1X!!

Regards

Mick

Mickb · Post by **Mickb** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:05 am

Rob

I support your idea of a user group I can also understand the frustration of people who feel the OS is "buggy" however to me these are different issues.

Of course if any OS is released containing bugs then it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to fix these bugs hopefully without introducing new unforseen ones.

As for a user requirements forum forwarding a wishlist of enhancements suggested by ALL interested members of this forum, well I think that is a stroke of genius if it gets up and running, and i'm sure given time it will. If everybody on this forum thinks hard I'm sure at some time they have been doing something and thought " I wish the keyboard could do this", or "wouldn't it be easier if I could just do it this way " ( I know I have on too many occasions to remember-- This is the very reason for me getting the programming hat on for developing some utilities)

Anyway people, give the idea a chance and don't knock it just because you feel frustrated about bugs which will be fixed anyway whether this group gets up and running or not. but with agroup like this then maybe an enhancement you thought of, and suggested to the forum could be introduced to the keyboard in an OS upgrade.

Regards

Mick

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:28 pm

I'm a little nervous of being too dogmatic in the aerly days since I want the group (if it happens) to be run on democratic principles where everyone has a say and a vote and the majority decisions prevail. So my annotated answers below to Sarajevo's questions are just my views (1 vote only) that can easily be overturned if people think I'm crazy (and that's not far from the truth).

SarajevoPA800 wrote:1. You are asking us, each, 100 Euros for some type of a membership to a group to which Korg will contribute new features for the OS? (Does it include both the owner's of PA800 and PA2X or just PA2X?).

This would apply equally to Pa800 and Pa2x, and possibly (depending on hardware) the Pa500 as well.

SarajevoPA800 wrote:2. Who would be requesting and getting these new OS features (just the people/members who paid or everyone)?

Everyone, but prioritisation and liaison directly with Korg would be done only by members.

SarajevoPA800 wrote:3. What kind/type of features would these be, just simple bug fixes or complete NEW features (for example AM/FM Tuner )?

NOT bug fixes, these would be provided by Korg as a matter of course. We might want to assist Korg by compiling a running list of defects and perhaps prioritizing them, but there would be no finance from the group involved. I would like the group to set up a web site for defect reporting in which the current status, number of people affected, Korg's response, probably relase date of fixes etc is tracked.

SarajevoPA800 wrote:4. Is 100 Euros the ONLY thing you need, from each of us, to get this project started or is there something else required from us (beacuse you keep asking us for support and I do not know how else we can support you except by giving you the money)?

The 100 Euros is a test of commitment. If a person is prepared to contribute 100 Euros then he/she will take an active part in the prioritization process and will want to see the money well spent if it comes to that. Although I am asking for 100 Euro commitment from each member, I hope we will never have to call upon it. It would only be requested once a specific need has been agreed by members, and if Korg have said they need some money to go ahead.

SarajevoPA800 wrote: 5. How much money is required to start this project?

50 members each willing in principal to take a 100 Euro stake. This is just a test from me, because if I cannot influence forum members to make this commitment, then I don't want to do all the work that will be involved in getting this moving.

SarajevoPA800 wrote:6. This software that Mick Barry is working on, will it be for both the PA800 and PA2X users?

Thanks to Mickb for replying below. Mick is a very capable developer and recording studio manager. His commitment to this sort of requirements group will be very important, and I think we can count on Mick's active involvement. There are also several other capable software developers who also own Pa series keyboards. I hope the requirements group can provide the necessary "enablers" so that an "open source" user community of developers will emerge in time.

SarajevoPA800 wrote:This is my opinion about "what I understood in this topic." I am very supportive of this idea if these 100 Euros would bring me new OS features, or new PC software. Most people, whenever a money payment is requested, they refuse the proposed idea and I believe that is the only reason why you are getting negative comments from everyone else, Money. Isn't it better and cheaper to pay 100Euro and get new features than to go and buy a completely new arranger? Anyways, I am very supportive of your idea and I believe something like this should have been done earlier, and people don't realize that yet. They keep complaining about how KORG stole their moeny. Well, I strongly believe that KORG is the best arranger company out there. They are building some very professional insturments for very affordable prices. Ok, they are not cheap but not expensive either. Now, some of us who owned the PA80 know that there was a lot more that could have been done for that arranger, feature wise, we were just lacking the support. I am a software engineer and I know that there are a lot of other members on this forum who are also computer programmers, can you imagine how many cool PC applications this project would help us create. Sorry for my English writting, it is my second language.

Well said, thank you.

Post by **Sharp** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:04 pm

50 members each willing in principal to take a 100 Euro stake. This is just a test from me, because if I cannot influence forum members to make this commitment, then I don't want to do all the work that will be involved in getting this moving.

Hi Rob.

If your really serious about all this then the first thing you need to do is actually contact KORG and ask them straight out would they be interested. Gathering numbers of people interested at this stage is like putting the cart before the horse.

I highly doubt KORG are interested, and until you have an official response from them, I personally see this thread as nothing other than a waste of your time. It makes no difference to me, but I just don't want to see you putting in a lot of work here for absolutely nothing when KORG Italy might not be interested.

I'm only speaking my mind here because I really and truly don't want to see you putting in a lot of effort here for nothing at all.

Regards.
Sharp.

Korg Forums

Proposal - User Community Funding for New Features

Would you like to join the requirements group on a subscription basis of 100 Euros per year?

Forget it

Late Voter