Korg Italy financial informations

For discussion relating to the Korg Pa5X arranger

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Sam CA
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Post by Sam CA »

D575 wrote:...

And a point of view that is twisted, contrived and sadly quite arrogant.
Yeah, it's beyond strange!

It's one thing to say people voluntarily jumped on a new instrument, because anything with an operating system is EXPECTED to have bugs for a while. That would be reasonable for any brand or model. Even a giant company like Apple that has all the resources in the world can't get it all right. Those who rely on electronic instruments, should not get rid of their working keyboards until it's safe to do so.

But this is a whole different scenario!!!
Sam

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karmathanever
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Post by karmathanever »

Sam CA wrote:Those who rely on electronic instruments, should not get rid of their working keyboards until it's safe to do so.
Absolutely.

It's "current-day life" to purchase many products and have problems particularly anything that comprises electronics.
My "loyalty" and satisfaction is for vendors with excellent support and customer service.
Recently bought a Samsung TV - I had some audio problems with it - called them - best customer service I've experienced in a long time - I would buy Samsung again for that reason only.
Korg have failed miserably in this regard - this was not always the case - Korg Italy offered great support to us many times in the past - they no longer have that control.
I am happy for those few who are satisfied with their PA5x keyboards but I think most owners are not so satisfied, and shouldn't be. I didn't buy (couldn't due to supply at the time) but I would be beyond fuming if I had one right now and here, the PA5x product would be violating "trade descriptions" laws - a product not performing according to official specifications - I'm referring to specified functions.

Of course, if you actually choose to spend big money on a sub-standard, non-working product then that is your personal decision - I believe most would not knowingly consider that.

The biggest issue with all of this (IMHO) is the absence of communication & customer care.
Korg's FAQs were a joke - EVERY answer had the disclaimer ".....subject to change without notice..." - really fills you with confidence eh!!!!! So we really have no idea when or if anything will be fixed and stabilised... just waiting for the next update...

I look forward to and still want a PA5x but when I have confidence again.

Take care

Pete :D
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petr14
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Post by petr14 »

Sam CA wrote: Those who rely on electronic instruments, should not get rid of their working keyboards until it's safe to do so.

But this is a whole different scenario!!!
I believe it is not a different scenario. This is exactly the point. Many (allegedly) sold the Pa4X and bought the Pa5X. This is irresponsible. Especially if they depend on it and the current state does not suit them. If I did business like this, I would go bankrupt. It's a flaw in their approach, not Korg's. They should have waited, not Korg. Because this Korg approach actually helped me. Nothing forced them to buy the Pa5X. But I needed a new instrument right now and the current state of the Pa5X is enough for me. I didn't want to buy the old Pa4X anymore. I'd rather buy the Pa5X and wait for them to improve it, but it's already usable and I'm using it. Korg's approach made me happy. Those who are not satisfied with the current condition of the instrument should not have bought it. They should have waited. They, not Korg. They are unhappy because they didn't wait, they made a hasty purchase. And that was their decision.
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D575
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Post by D575 »

Sam CA wrote:
D575 wrote:...

And a point of view that is twisted, contrived and sadly quite arrogant.
Yeah, it's beyond strange!

“Since some personalitie types deep down feel themselves to be faultless, it is inevitable that when they are in conflict with the world they will invariably perceive the conflict as the world’s fault.”


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karmathanever
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Post by karmathanever »

petr14 wrote:Many (allegedly) sold the Pa4X and bought the Pa5X. This is irresponsible. Especially if they depend on it and the current state does not suit them. If I did business like this, I would go bankrupt. It's a flaw in their approach, not Korg's. They should have waited, not Korg.
Seriously???? Definitely Korg's problem!!! The manuals and specs do not reflect the product!! How do you expect customers to "guess" that.
Your argument makes no sense to me at all I'm afraid.
You buy a Toyota with air-conditioning and it doesn't have air-conditioning - that's your problem and not Toyota's (even though they are indicating that they'll fix it sometime)???? I DON'T THINK SO!!
I've maintained confidence in Korg since the i2/i3 days. I actually bought my PA4x sight-unseen, yes, a bit risky, but I did expect it to perform the way the manuals and documentation depicted and it did and I admit there were some odd bugs but the keyboard performed all functions per manuals.
petr14 wrote:But I needed a new instrument right now and the current state of the Pa5X is enough for me.
I'd rather buy the Pa5X and wait for them to improve it, but it's already usable and I'm using it.
How did you determine its current state in order to decide to buy???? and analyse the faults and incomplete features on the PA5x - there is no documentation about its current incomplete state - if you made an intelligent and planned choice then you must have had a lot of access before hand to determine its status - how did you know it was usable to you?

P.S. I am happy that it works for you...
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D575
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Post by D575 »

It is curious to me looking at some of these threads throughout the PA5X forum and in a few particular cases (much like we are seeing in this one) that we are perhaps seeing some reactions you would expect in much the same way from someone with a food anxiety who are about to be denied there food...

This could perhaps explain the reaction of certain individuals who are behaving like fighting strategists, where the PA5X could be providing for them (or on the behalf of a friend) their sustenance which would then suggest to the reader they may be hiding there true identities behind some of the interactions we are seeing around these threads...

You could go on to compare this (say with someone like me) who is a customer of Korg's with a PA5X (but importantly) where my day job which provides my income has no relationship or relevance with PA5X...

A little speculation of course but nevertheless something to think about.
:)
Last edited by D575 on Tue Jan 03, 2023 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Berhinger VC340 : Berhinger Solina : Focal Trio6 ST6 : RME Audio Interface : A&H SQ-5 Mixer : Focusrite ISA Two : Drawmer 1973 MBC : Spl Tube Vitalizer : Kush Clariphonic : Tascam DA3000 : Spl Big : Zahl Eq1 : Elysia Skulpter : Omnisphere 2 : Cherry Audio Korg PS-3300 : Waves IDX : Kraftur & Gullfoss : Cradle God Particle : Sonarworks Sound-ID Ref : Cubase 14 : TC Electronic Clarity M : Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro Mk2 :
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Post by redfox »

A while ago I bought an iPhone 1: it had many limitations, it couldn't record decent videos, it had difficulty sending an SMS, etc. With the updates of the operating system, the limitations have gradually disappeared and the iPhone has become more and more powerful. Every new iPhone has always had everything its predecessors had, plus something new.

Some things that have been removed (the headphone jack, for example): and these disappearances have always caused bad moods and problems, but there was always some technological improvement that filled the problem.

If today Apple told me that the iPhone XX will start from scratch with the operating system and that for a year (indeed, for an unspecified time) I will have to give up many of the things I'm used to, I think I would seriously think about switching to something other.

But if Apple advertises great features on the new iPhone XX but then, after I buy it, I realize these features will only be available in a year (and "subject to change without notice"), well I wouldn't be too happy.

For now my Pa4X-76 remains in place: a few months ago I was sure I would switch to a Pa5X, now I'm seriously thinking about the Ketron Event and I hope to try one in a few weeks.
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Post by BR »

karmathanever wrote: ...
The biggest issue with all of this (IMHO) is the absence of communication & customer care.
....

Take care

Pete :D
Well said and agreed.

I read some where here in the forum that "we should support korg",
I am asking this poster how do you support a company (in this case Korg) if
they don't want to communicate with their customers?
It doesn't make any sens.
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Post by nitecrawler »

I have been reading this and other conversations re: the current state of the Korg PA5x verses its stated specifications with more than just idle curiosity. I have ordered a PA5x but have yet to receive it. I can see valid points on both sides of this conversation. One thing that has been mentioned is that control of the production and development of Korg professional arrangers is no longer controlled by Korg Italy. Rather it has been taken over by Korg Japan it seems. What we have is a dis-connect between actual instrument function and published instrument function in company brochures and videos. Remember, the PA5x is a new operating system that does not conform to its PA predecessors in function and that may well explain the situation we see before us. Those instrument brochures and videos should have been more carefully created and changed to reflect the reality of instrument function as it exists in reality. Not in what the company or customers perceive as its end reality functionality. Along with that, I feel it would have been better for Korg not to promise to recreate functionality that some customers want until it "knows" it can. Because of that I cannot give Korg a pass on its roll-out of the PA5x, but; also, I will not stop my PA5x order from reaching me. I go in with my eyes open and my expectations undamaged. Your personal views may vary and you are welcome to have them. 8)
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Post by taichi »

How have Korg got away with all of this ? A few years ago they were fined millions for price fixing, forcing and threatening dealers to keep their prices high.

But this is a far worse offence than that for reasons described in these posts. So how have they got away with it ? Amazing since the plight of the 5X has gone viral.

Korgs dishonesty and law breaking, regarding advertising and trade descriptions acts about the Pa5X has gone viral. There is something not right here. How have they got away with it ?
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siebenhirter
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Pa5x - manuals/specs do not reflect the product

Post by siebenhirter »

petr14 wrote: .. I needed a new instrument right now and the current state of the Pa5X is enough for me. I didn't want to buy the old Pa4X anymore. I'd rather buy the Pa5X and wait for them to improve it, but it's already usable and I'm using it....
Maybe for your needs Pa5x is already useable und you are using it, also while at the same time
- the manuals and specs do not reflect the product
- the determination of current state would analyse faults and incomplete features.

Measured against the offered properties of the product, your current claims are infinitesimally small and so meaningless that it is not ok to criticize the decision of prospects, who expect the product with the properties with which it is offered.

Korg offers a Pa5x - it doesn't match the properties as offered, that's dubious. It is irrelevant whether customers have already bought the device or want to buy it soon. It is not obligatory for the customer to check the properties offered and sometimes it is not even possible. However, it is obligatory for Korg to deliver exclusively for the properties offered - everything else is dubious. because customers can rely on it with confidence.
All global trade works on this confidence - else business would go bankrupt.
*
petr14 wrote: ....... They are unhappy because they didn't wait, they made a hasty purchase. And that was their decision...
Finally please stop your ridiculous, rude insults - nobody's decision is responsible for the mistakes and shortcomings with which KORG grossly abuses the trust of long-standing customers!

Once offered by Korg, every customer may confidy to buy the product as advertised without necessarity of controlling this - also with the Pa5x no customer is responsible for this. Maybe breach of trust is favored by borderline stupid postings - and that's a shame!
*
karmathanever wrote: ...The biggest issue with all of this (IMHO) is the absence of communication & customer care ......
nitecrawler wrote: ...One thing that has been mentioned is that control of the production and development of Korg professional arrangers is no longer controlled by Korg Italy. Rather it has been taken over by Korg Japan it seems ...
I also think there farther nothing is controlled by Korg Italy but Japan. That's actually one of the hopes, maybe in future to get the Pa5x as a full-fledged arranger and a Pa1000 with a satisfactory update.

The absence of communication and customer care will not change anytime soon, because in recent years communication with Korg has only been possible through sales. This channel will probably remain the same in the future and essential communications will continue to be rejected with the information, that mails are forwarded to the manufacturer due to decision handicaps - and answer is always uncertain.
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Post by worth »

“But this is a far worse offence than that for reasons described in these posts. So how have they got away with it ? Amazing since the plight of the 5X has gone viral.

Korgs dishonesty and law breaking, regarding advertising and trade descriptions acts about the Pa5X has gone viral. There is something not right here. How have they got away with it ?”

Because none has pursued korg for misleading and fraudulent advertising. I have said it before . There are enough folkes on this forum to take korg to task legally.
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Post by musiccankill »

I wonder what else was advertised that it would have but is actually missing on the pa5x cause i can't find anything anymore...

The only think i have seen people claim that was actually advertised but not there till os 1.1 was the 4Gb sample memory which is indeed present in the latest os...

The fact that there are some different/less functions compared to the previous models doesn't mean they had to be there.
Korg didn't say they would be there in the first place and the manual has no mention of them as far as I have seen...

Yes there are some bugs that will eventually be fixed but nothing is missing that was advertised right now that I know of or have seen people mentioning in here...

If there really is anything please mention it so all this conversation will make more sense to everybody..
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Post by Biggles »

Do Korg Pa buyers have short memories?

The 4X was released and it took years before the OS reached the the Next version.

Pa700 and 1000 were both released in 2017 and have not had any updates at all only bug fixes. That to me gives a very big question mark on Korg’s business strategy.

Nautilus is released and Kronos dropped so there is no direct competitor with Roland and Yamaha and does that flag a question mark on Korg business strategy?

I bought a Kross 2 in 2018 and it took 18 months before a significant update was released.

Yet the 5X is released and the clammer of buyers rushing to buy is overwhelming only to find a product that does not meet their expectations.

Buying a Mark 1 version of any product means you are a Beta tester, that is the reality of buying what is a niche market product.

My faith in Korg is severely dented
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karmathanever
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Post by karmathanever »

Biggles wrote:The 4X was released and it took years before the OS reached the the Next version.
Yes, but we had 3 different keyboards in that time - the "NEXT" and earlier updates were semi-rewrites of OS and added new features well away from its original specs - it was never "incomplete" like this PA5x seems to be reported.
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