Kornos on Sierra (Bad audio)

pedro5 · Post by **pedro5** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:46 pm

Has anyone tried the suggestions I posted earlier ?

They're not guaranteed to work for all,but they do in my case.

The setting up can be a little haphazard though,it may take several attempts before they settle to have the required effect.
Also,may change periodically and needs monitoring for a while.

Gunnar · Post by **Gunnar** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:54 pm

Hi pedro5,

I was a bit confused by your post at first, but I think I've landed on at least parts of the same approach that you outlined in it :)

Using the built-in output on the Mac works fine and so does using the KRONOS as an audio input device. So to avoid the distortion, configure the DAW to use separate devices for input and output. The KRONOS as input and the Mac's built-in output as output.

Plug KRONOS's L/R jacks into channels 1/2 of a mixer, plug the headphones mini-jack of the Mac into channels 3/4 of that same mixer, and the audio in the mixer is fine. It needs a separate mixer, but I was already using one, so that works for me. It works because I'm effectively no longer using the KRONOS for output from the Mac anymore. That is a bit sad, but as long as it works.. :)

From my experience with spotify, youtube, etc I don't see how one could do mixing on the KRONOS anymore, as any output sent to the KRONOS from the Mac distorts after a short time.

You mention configuring the speakers? Under "Configure Speakers", I only have the option to swap Left and Right.

pedro5 · Post by **pedro5** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:18 pm

Thanks for your response Gunnar.
Probably I hadn't posted a full explanation in my previous post,mainly because it would be too lengthy (possibly boring) for most to read in one go...

I think you've got this near right.

To show both the Kronos and the Built In Output in the Configure Speakers part....you need to have an aggregate device set up.
It will show the Kronos...set it to front left and right
Also the Built In Speakers...set them to 3 and 4.

This is what works for me with Sierra....but it does need some experimenting for the correct combination.

However,this does not need to be done with Mountain Lion as the default speaker settings just work fine.
The aggregate device will also provide the Drift setting.....ReSample This Device...for the Kronos,which can help with clicks and pops.

Hopes this helps you and others.

Best Wishes.

aron · Post by **aron** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:20 pm

pedro5,

I think most of us are trying to use only the Kronos outputs. Not route the computer to a mixer or back into the Kronos inputs. Mostly because some of us have another keyboard to use with the Kronos inputs.

The main thing is to figure out if the problem is with the Kronos or the core audio driver so someone can fix this.

pedro5 · Post by **pedro5** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:43 pm

aron.
Sorry,I don't fully understand that.
Would you please explain some more.

DeltaJockey · Post by **DeltaJockey** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:17 am

Pedro,

I think what Aron means, is that we have our Kronos connected directly to speakers/monitors, we use the analog inputs on the Kronos to input the line out of another keyboard.
For me, doing this leaves me free to route the computer audio/vst instruments and DAW via the USB audio of the Kronos.
The whole idea is to have the line outs of the Kronos go directly to the speakers, so you don't have to analog mix it through an external mixer.

I thought this is what the USB audio in the Kronos, and other similar keyboards was about....using the Kronos as a sound module and mixing your other analog sources via this.

Unfortunately, with the current problem, the Kronos is reduced to "any other synth" that doesn't act as a sound module.
For me, that means either using an external mixer to blend the Kronos output and my DAW audio, or inputting the computer audio to the Kronos analog inputs, thereby requiring me to mix another keyboard via the external mixer.

In my simplest configuration, I just want the Kronos connected to my speakers, and the one USB cable connected to my computer carrying MIDI messages AND audio from the DAW.

Chris

Gunnar · Post by **Gunnar** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:48 am

In my simplest configuration, I just want the Kronos connected to my speakers, and the one USB cable connected to my computer carrying MIDI messages AND audio from the DAW.

In this configuration, you are not interested in recording audio going out of the KRONOS, right? Just MIDI. I ask because the way I got this working, pre-Sierra, was to route USB 1/2 to KRONOS out 1/2 and then blend L/R (KRONOS out) and KRONOS 1/2 (Mac out via KRONOS USB) with an external mixer.

If you routed USB 1/2 to KRONOS L/R for going to the speaker, you would also get USB 1/2 out being recorded along with whatever you play on the KRONOS as the audio input on the computer is hardwired to L/R. Or am I missing something?

DeltaJockey · Post by **DeltaJockey** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:18 am

Gunnar,

sorry for the confusion. You are right, not recording the Kronos via the DAW. I really meant the simplest config as an example of wanting to use the Kronos just as a soundcard from my virtual instruments for playback.
I am currently using it in this simple config, as I am mainly composing and live practicing of Kronos programs/combis or vst instruments, so am not in the recording phase of my compositions at the moment.
I haven't recorded the Kronos sound into DAW for some time, and not since I began having this audio problem. You are using a more complex routing than I am currently.

....Have recently moved interstate, and have been away from the forum for a while, and am also busy trying to setup the studio in my new house!

Chris

amit · Post by **amit** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:08 pm

If you want a hint at what Korg did about this issue?? They did not provide low latency drivers for windows.
You will have same/similar issues with Kronos connected to an iPad. It will run fine for a while and then glitches and all.All this points to some issues with Kronos USB.

aron · Post by **aron** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:43 pm

Great! We isolated this problem. Now where do we report it? How do we get Korg to check this out? Has anyone reported this?

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:18 pm

I haven't used it a lot but my Kronos always worked without a hitch with my Windows laptop. It SHOULD work with OSX and iOS too. They didn't make drivers because they made it class compliant.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:40 pm

Apparently, in Sierra, Apple deprecated the sync method we use. Our developers are now testing a Kronos firmware change to use the new method. I can't make any official promises about when (or even if) this will be released, but hopefully it will be soon! In the meantime, I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

amit · Post by **amit** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:42 pm

Class Compliant as in is its name Suggests is "Compliance"

yes, you can watch all netflix or youtube over that in your kronos without a hitch, thats's what class compliance gives you yet another soundcard.

But Running Low latency/Realtime audio i/o over that is another story and no guarantee.

Audio Dropouts an glitches will occur due to sync problems and as well as could be poor usb clocking(crystals) on the hardware and not just being able to keep up.

There might be some tweaks here and there to get it working to some extent, but Knowing that these issues can come up any time, would you be comfortable using that in a gig or while recording.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:14 pm

amit wrote:Class Compliant as in is its name Suggests is "Compliance"

yes, you can watch all netflix or youtube over that in your kronos without a hitch, thats's what class compliance gives you yet another soundcard.

But Running Low latency/Realtime audio i/o over that is another story and no guarantee.

Actually, Class Compliant means that the device conforms to the USB Audio Device class. Reliability with realtime audio is absolutely part of that. Standard drivers on the Mac have supported low latencies for years via class-compliant USB. My impression is that Windows 10 made significant improvements in this regard; if you're using an older version of Windows, you might want to try it out!

amit wrote:Audio Dropouts an glitches will occur due to sync problems and as well as could be poor usb clocking(crystals) on the hardware and not just being able to keep up.

This is a misunderstanding on several counts. First, the sync we're talking about here has nothing to do with "usb clocking crystals." If there was a problem with a "poor USB clock," you'd see all sorts of issues - and the device would by definition not be USB-compliant. It sounds like you might be confusing this with digital audio clocks. USB audio is different, since among other things it is a fundamentally non-realtime system, relying on buffers rather than realtime sample-by-sample transmission.

RE "not just being able to keep up:" Two inputs and two outputs of 48kHz 24-bit audio requires 288 kB/sec. That's less than 0.5% of USB 2.0's theoretical bandwidth of 60 MB/sec. Any modern computer will have absolutely no problem "keeping up" with that.

Valles · Post by **Valles** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:22 pm

danatkorg wrote:Apparently, in Sierra, Apple deprecated the sync method we use. Our developers are now testing a Kronos firmware change to use the new method. I can't make any official promises about when (or even if) this will be released, but hopefully it will be soon! In the meantime, I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

All clear now, Thanks !