Korg's new Kaossilator Pro.

[SMK]

I have a a question about the KOpro inputs; I jut noticed in the specs that the RCA's are both PHONO. Please tell me that is a typo!

I've dealt with phono before with my KP2 and the boost in that, is way too much and distorted. Obviously only used for someone who works a turntable which I don't. Basically I didn't like PHONO in the KP2 because it gave a different input than normal RCA. With the KOpro I plan to work this with my KP3 so to me (based on my limited knowledge of PHONO) Something will booth that I probably don't want to boost.

[RichF]

Believe me, I'm listening, and I've passed along all the comments about wanting to send note data while not in External Control mode. Of course, I can't guarantee any changes, but rest assured Korg knows that this is on your minds.

I've just discovered this thread. Thanks for the insights Richard.

1) My initial question relates to lengthy synching of the KOPro loopers to external MIDI sync.
In the KP3 the ALIGN was required to be used regularly to line things back up (and unfortunately there was no MIDI Event equivalent
recognized by the KP3 for a sequencer to send to ALIGN things on a regular basis).
When I squint at the KOPro jpg I don't see an ALIGN option above the TAP button.
Will drifting-away-from-perfect-sync not a be problem for this device?

2) I'm happy to see the volume control for balancing instrument volumes (and if it's like the KP3, this will be saved with each Program button).
Will the choice of Gate-Arpeggiator selection as well as the state of the GATE ON and GATE SLIDER position be saved with each Program button?

3) The 4 loopers in lieu of an Undo option sounds good to me if it's possible to merge your new loop-track in with a previous loop-track
(or mix into a third loop-track) to build up perfect tracks as you go (as otherwise the 4 tracks will fill up quickly).
Is this possible? (My fingers are crossed.)

1. The KOPro locks up quite solidly to external MIDI tempo via a standard MIDI cable. I left a loop synced to an external master clock for well over five minutes, and I couldn't hear any drift.

2. The volume control is saved with each Program, but the gate/time slider settings and GATE ARP button state (on/off) are maintained when you change Programs. The variable gate and time slider replace the selectable arp patterns from the original Kaossillator.

3. What you're talking about is resampling, which is present in the KP3, but not in the KOPro. So, it means you can't combine multi-layered loops. Consider that unlike the KP3, you can overdub on each Loop Bank... so you're skipping the process of resampling when you want to add a single new element. It's a different process, but a very fast and effective one.

Hope this is useful.

[RichF]

I have a a question about the KOpro inputs; I jut noticed in the specs that the RCA's are both PHONO. Please tell me that is a typo!

I've dealt with phono before with my KP2 and the boost in that, is way too much and distorted. Obviously only used for someone who works a turntable which I don't. Basically I didn't like PHONO in the KP2 because it gave a different input than normal RCA. With the KOpro I plan to work this with my KP3 so to me (based on my limited knowledge of PHONO) Something will booth that I probably don't want to boost.

The RCA line input/output jacks on all our KAOSS pads do NOT contain phono preamps, and are not meant to connect directly to a turntable that requires one. You should find the input/output levels on the KOPro to be similar to your KP3... and believe me, you're going to dig having both of them together.

[xmlguy]

The variable gate and time slider replace the selectable arp patterns from the original Kaossillator.

Are you saying that the KOPRO doesn't have the selectable arp patterns of the original Kaossillator, at all? Or just that they aren't selected with the fader? If the KOPRO doesn't have the arp patterns at all, and only allows the gate time to be selected, than that's another HUGE blunder. The arp patterns on the Kaossilator are one of the most important features to me, and I use them constantly. Variable gate time is no replacement or substitute for the patterns, and I don't see how anyone could expect any arp patterns to be missing without causing much consternation among existing Kaossilator owners looking to upgrade. Without the arp patterns, I probably won't buy the KOPRO, certainly not anytime soon.

I'm getting really anxious that Korg has screwed up this product. I just don't trust Korg R&D much anymore to give them the benefit of the doubt. Seeing the manual will help clear up some of my concern, but until I get my hands on it for a few hours, I won't be able to determine that everything I need still works "right".

[RichF]

...but until I get my hands on it for a few hours, I won't be able to determine that everything I need still works "right".

You just hit it on the head... none of this matters until you get your hands on it. I'm here answering pre-release questions, but no matter how the answers sound, by no means should you write it off until you get to try it yourself.

This is a perfect example. Yes, the preset patterns are gone altogether... Instead, you're no longer LIMITED to just 50 patterns. You can create your own evolving patterns, on the fly, using the slider to adjust gate time AND tempo subdivisions. The switch on the back of the chassis (The Direct/Send switch on the KP3) chooses the slider's function.

Yes, it's different... and in my (admittedly biased) opinion, it's awesome.

[SMK]

I have a a question about the KOpro inputs; I jut noticed in the specs that the RCA's are both PHONO. Please tell me that is a typo!

I've dealt with phono before with my KP2 and the boost in that, is way too much and distorted. Obviously only used for someone who works a turntable which I don't. Basically I didn't like PHONO in the KP2 because it gave a different input than normal RCA. With the KOpro I plan to work this with my KP3 so to me (based on my limited knowledge of PHONO) Something will booth that I probably don't want to boost.

The RCA line input/output jacks on all our KAOSS pads do NOT contain phono preamps, and are not meant to connect directly to a turntable that requires one. You should find the input/output levels on the KOPro to be similar to your KP3... and believe me, you're going to dig having both of them together.

Oh thank the Gods! the specifications page on the korg site had me worried there for a sec because it CLEARLY says RCA (PHONO).

So it's a typo, hopfully someone can correct that on your site.

[SMK]

Yes, the preset patterns are gone altogether... Instead, you're no longer LIMITED to just 50 patterns. You can create your own evolving patterns, on the fly, using the slider to adjust gate time AND tempo subdivisions. The switch on the back of the chassis (The Direct/Send switch on the KP3) chooses the slider's function.

Yes, it's different... and in my (admittedly biased) opinion, it's awesome.

Yeah I have to agree here. See in the Kaossilator your limited to just 50 choices where as the slider function (which I assume functions just like the arp on the Electribes) allows you to create your own arp patterns.

Now the question back to you RichF: is it set up that during operation or performance, can you toggle that switch in the back choosing between gate time AND tempo subdivisions? basically one moment you adjust your gate time then you toggle the switch and then adjust tempo subdivisions all during your performance?

You wont lose me if you can't but im sure you can see the advantage if this is possible

Thanks Rich

[RichF]

Yeah I have to agree here. See in the Kaossilator your limited to just 50 choices where as the slider function (which I assume functions just like the arp on the Electribes) allows you to create your own arp patterns.

Now the question back to you RichF: is it set up that during operation or performance, can you toggle that switch in the back choosing between gate time AND tempo subdivisions? basically one moment you adjust your gate time then you toggle the switch and then adjust tempo subdivisions all during your performance?

You wont lose me if you can't but im sure you can see the advantage if this is possible

Thanks Rich

You can toggle the switch as you're playing. Set the gate time you want, then toggle the switch and select a tempo subdivision ("speed").

It is similar to the Electribe EMX-1 and ESX-1 in that the slider controls gate time, but instead of a ribbon, you're controlling pitch with the X/Y pad, and the slider can modify two parameters instead of just one.

[Scott M2]

Believe me, I'm listening, and I've passed along all the comments about wanting to send note data while not in External Control mode. Of course, I can't guarantee any changes, but rest assured Korg knows that this is on your minds.

I've just discovered this thread. Thanks for the insights Richard.

1) My initial question relates to lengthy synching of the KOPro loopers to external MIDI sync.
In the KP3 the ALIGN was required to be used regularly to line things back up (and unfortunately there was no MIDI Event equivalent
recognized by the KP3 for a sequencer to send to ALIGN things on a regular basis).
When I squint at the KOPro jpg I don't see an ALIGN option above the TAP button.
Will drifting-away-from-perfect-sync not a be problem for this device?

2) I'm happy to see the volume control for balancing instrument volumes (and if it's like the KP3, this will be saved with each Program button).
Will the choice of Gate-Arpeggiator selection as well as the state of the GATE ON and GATE SLIDER position be saved with each Program button?

3) The 4 loopers in lieu of an Undo option sounds good to me if it's possible to merge your new loop-track in with a previous loop-track
(or mix into a third loop-track) to build up perfect tracks as you go (as otherwise the 4 tracks will fill up quickly).
Is this possible? (My fingers are crossed.)

1. The KOPro locks up quite solidly to external MIDI tempo via a standard MIDI cable. I left a loop synced to an external master clock for well over five minutes, and I couldn't hear any drift.

2. The volume control is saved with each Program, but the gate/time slider settings and GATE ARP button state (on/off) are maintained when you change Programs. The variable gate and time slider replace the selectable arp patterns from the original Kaossillator.

3. What you're talking about is resampling, which is present in the KP3, but not in the KOPro. So, it means you can't combine multi-layered loops. Consider that unlike the KP3, you can overdub on each Loop Bank... so you're skipping the process of resampling when you want to add a single new element. It's a different process, but a very fast and effective one.

Hope this is useful.

1) That's excellent news!

2) I'll definitely miss many of the "irregular" patterns from the arp-patterns
but look forward to exploring what can be done with the new approach.

3) It's a shame that when my timing or pitch is off I'll have to lose everything built up in a loop/track to "undo" it
but the Undo function from the plain Kaossilator would pause the whole loop, making it unusable in a live situation anyway.
(It was very handy when building loops on the bus, when a lurch would introduce some baaaad elements -
but the KOPro can't be powered on the bus and won't fit in my coat pocket.)

BTW - The ability to save loops to a card or to the computer is great!
I sometimes keep a bus-built Kaossilator loop going until I can play it into my KP3 to save it. They sync up very nicely.

It appears that since the KP3 Send/Direct switch has been usurped by the GATE functions that the KOPro is strictly for "in-line" applications for external looping.
Is that correct - or is there a software switch for that function? (So that it can be used in a mixer send for various instruments.)

[xmlguy]

...but until I get my hands on it for a few hours, I won't be able to determine that everything I need still works "right".

You just hit it on the head... none of this matters until you get your hands on it. I'm here answering pre-release questions, but no matter how the answers sound, by no means should you write it off until you get to try it yourself.

This is a perfect example. Yes, the preset patterns are gone altogether... Instead, you're no longer LIMITED to just 50 patterns. You can create your own evolving patterns, on the fly, using the slider to adjust gate time AND tempo subdivisions. The switch on the back of the chassis (The Direct/Send switch on the KP3) chooses the slider's function.

Yes, it's different... and in my (admittedly biased) opinion, it's awesome.

The thing is that I see no good reason whatsoever NOT to include the original 50 patterns. Improving the arp is good, and an improved arp should be able to handle the original patterns, so why take two steps forward and one step back? If I like patterns 11-15, why should I have to learn how to recreate them on the PRO version? Did someone actually decide - oh, existing Kaossilator users certainly won't mind if we get rid of the existing patterns? So this leads me to the obvious followup question: are ALL of the original programs for the Kaossilator present on the KOPRO? If the answer is no, then I could slap someone in R&D real hard in the head to emphasize: WTFWY Thinking YF moron?!?

So here's a challenge. Can you reproduce patterns 11-14 from the Kaossilator on the KOPRO. Please tell me that (1) its possible and (2) how long it takes you. It's only 4 patterns, right? If the arp is truly improved, then it should be a breeze, right? If not, then perhaps "improvement" isn't the proper word the the new arp/gate. I could come up with more descriptive words, but I'll leave that until after I hear/discover the answer to my questions.

And you keep using the term GATE, instead of ARP. That really brushes my fur the wrong way - the Kaossilator patterns triggered notes with different gate times per note, not merely a pattern where one gate time was adjusted for the whole pattern.

[RichF]

The thing is that I see no good reason whatsoever NOT to include the original 50 patterns. Improving the arp is good, and an improved arp should be able to handle the original patterns, so why take two steps forward and one step back? If I like patterns 11-15, why should I have to learn how to recreate them on the PRO version? Did someone actually decide - oh, existing Kaossilator users certainly won't mind if we get rid of the existing patterns? So this leads me to the obvious followup question: are ALL of the original programs for the Kaossilator present on the KOPRO? If the answer is no, then I could slap someone in R&D real hard in the head to emphasize: WTFWY Thinking YF moron?!?

So here's a challenge. Can you reproduce patterns 11-14 from the Kaossilator on the KOPRO. Please tell me that (1) its possible and (2) how long it takes you. It's only 4 patterns, right? If the arp is truly improved, then it should be a breeze, right? If not, then perhaps "improvement" isn't the proper word the the new arp/gate. I could come up with more descriptive words, but I'll leave that until after I hear/discover the answer to my questions.

And you keep using the term GATE, instead of ARP. That really brushes my fur the wrong way - the Kaossilator patterns triggered notes with different gate times per note, not merely a pattern where one gate time was adjusted for the whole pattern.

I'll stick by my previous description of the new arp: "Different." Personally, I also enjoy the preset arps from the original Kaossilator, and will continue to do so. As for the new one, I don't mind tapping out the line I want (like in patterns 11-14, which I also like), and I appreciate the new flexibility with the slider, especially using tempo subdivisions. For example, it's very easy and fast to generate an eigth-note pedal bass line, because I don't have to hold down the GATE ARP/TYPE button, then select the correct pattern... I just move the slider into place. Plus, I could quickly change it to a quarter-note pattern just by moving the slider, instead of holding down a button, then scrolling. I could even do this while playing the bassline.

The word "gate" keeps popping up because the correct term for the KOPro's arpeggiator is "Gate Arp," like the original Kaossilator. The term is still relevant, even though it works in a different, more open-ended manner.

Here's another nice point to consider... The KOPro transmits and receives CC messages that can control the gate time and speed. So, not only is it good for live use, the automation possibilities are wide open.

To answer your other question, MOST of the original Kaossilator's programs are intact. Some are improved to take advantage of the KOPro's new capabilities (such as having 4 horizontal zones to trigger different sounds).

[RichF]

It appears that since the KP3 Send/Direct switch has been usurped by the GATE functions that the KOPro is strictly for "in-line" applications for external looping.
Is that correct - or is there a software switch for that function? (So that it can be used in a mixer send for various instruments.)

That's correct, the KOPro doesn't have the direct/send switching function that the KP3 has. Since that's MOSTLY beneficial for the KP3's effects processing, it was sacrificed to provide more arpeggiator functionality. Like the original Kaosssilator, it's much more of an instrument unto itself, rather than an effects processor (although there are a few nice audio-in effects included as well, similar to the KP3's included synth and drum programs).

[xmlguy]

I'll just have to try it to see how the gate arp really works on the KOPRO. Is the pad multitouch, like on the Kaossilator? If I press on two places at the same time, I get something in the middle. This is a very important aspect of how the pad works, because it allows for doing riffs like triplets and such up and down the scales.

[SMK]

Yeah I have to agree here. See in the Kaossilator your limited to just 50 choices where as the slider function (which I assume functions just like the arp on the Electribes) allows you to create your own arp patterns.

Now the question back to you RichF: is it set up that during operation or performance, can you toggle that switch in the back choosing between gate time AND tempo subdivisions? basically one moment you adjust your gate time then you toggle the switch and then adjust tempo subdivisions all during your performance?

You wont lose me if you can't but im sure you can see the advantage if this is possible

Thanks Rich

You can toggle the switch as you're playing. Set the gate time you want, then toggle the switch and select a tempo subdivision ("speed").

It is similar to the Electribe EMX-1 and ESX-1 in that the slider controls gate time, but instead of a ribbon, you're controlling pitch with the X/Y pad, and the slider can modify two parameters instead of just one.

I just got back from some seriously long day/evening at work and reading this post made my evening! NIIIIICE!!! Glad to see the slider can do double duty while performing live.

BTW Rich, you are doing an awesome job keeping us updated on this product, answering all of our questions (most of which are pretty tough) and I have to say thank you for the extra time and effort you are putting into this forum on the KOPro alone.

[RichF]

I'll just have to try it to see how the gate arp really works on the KOPRO. Is the pad multitouch, like on the Kaossilator? If I press on two places at the same time, I get something in the middle. This is a very important aspect of how the pad works, because it allows for doing riffs like triplets and such up and down the scales.

The pad behaves the same way as the original Kaossilator... Touch two spots, and you'll get the exact position in the middle. It's actually a single-touch mechanism, but two touches produces this useful result.