EDS-i (Kross) vs EDS-x (Krome) vs EDS (M3)

[SeedyLee]

There's been a few questions posed over the years about exactly what the difference is between EDS-i, as used in the Kross, versus the original EDS and EDS-x used in the Krome. Korg do a really bad job of explaining what the differences are, so I wanted to capture some of my findings.

I have both a Krome Ex and a Kross 2, and from what I have previously read on the internet, it sounded like the main differences were the number of samples, the number of effects, and some of the synth engine parameters. However, there are some other critical differences that users should be aware of.

The big one that I haven't seen documented or discussed anywhere is the quality of the effects. Everything I've seen has suggested that the two differ in only the selection and number of concurrent effects, but I think it's deeper than that.

The effects on the Kross 2 seem to be significantly lower quality than those on the Krome Ex, and I suspect it's to do with the word length (bit depth) of the Kross vs Krome. On the Kross, there are significant artefacts in long reverb tails, or in effects that apply additional gain (such as the mastering compressor) to the incoming signal. It sounds to me like these might be operating at between 16 to 20 bits. When compared to the Krome, these artifacts aren't noticeable.

I suspect the EDS-i engine as used on the Kross is so named because it doesn't use any external memory (RAM) for the tone generator's effects engines - all the effects are run using the limited RAM built into the TGi tone generator chip. By comparison, the TG01 tone generator used in the Krome Ex

[voip]

Not forgetting the M50, which also uses EDS, and has the same number of effects as the M3. The basic sound generation method of the M50 seems to be the same as the M3. Apart from the M50 having slightly lower polyphony, the M50 sounds pretty much the same as the M3.

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[SeedyLee]

Very good point. Yes, I think the M3 and M50 use the same engine, with different sample sets, and EDS-i and EDS-x came later.

I will need to check, but I’m pretty sure that EDS-X and EDS-i use the same, or very similar, tone generation chip - just with the addition of an FPGA and additional cache memory on the EDS-X variant.

Listening to some of the effects today on the Kross, I have to say I was pretty disappointed. For example, the compressors and limiters add a huge amount of what sounds like quantisation noise at higher gains on quiet passages, and it doesn’t sound like it’s at all dithered, making it sound really harsh and digital. Even on the default piano patches, playing softer passages the noise is really evident in the decay. I’m annoyed with myself that I hadn’t noticed it before, and more annoyed that Korg don’t publish such specs! Also surprised that not a single review seems to have picked up on this.

The Kross is a weird one. For an extra hundred bucks it could have had the EDS engine of its predecessors and a fully fledged sampler, but I feel like the flubbed it to protect the Krome (which seems to be essentially discontinued). I’d love a Krome with a sampler and additional outs, or a Krome with a monochrome screen that could run on batteries, for instance. But as it stands, the Kross and Krome both have pros and cons and neither quite ends up fitting the bill.

[tkarlmann]

Since Krome is no longer available, could one augment hardware 'shortcomings' of the Kross by using a VST setup?
Would this Kross/VST augmentation prove to be a good choice, or should one just spend more money for a better-speced workstation?
I am in learning mode at present, and I like the Kross; I've watched just about all YT videos reviewing Kross, and I don't find Kross's onboard sounds 'limiting' -- for my ears -- for now -- but when I play for others, I might need better quality sounds.

Is there any reason to think that Kross's hardware limits might interfere with triggering a VST in a live performance?
Can a VST/Kross system be implemented with a laptop + Kross?

[Scott]

Is there any reason to think that Kross's hardware limits might interfere with triggering a VST in a live performance?

It will work fine. There are some hardware limitations that can prevent you from making the most of some VSTs, e.g. the Kross not having a bunch of programmable real-time controls or aftertouch or the best action in the world, so it might not typically be someone's first choice as a VST controller, but there's no reason you can't take this approach to enhance your sound selection. And on the plus side, the Kross does nicely let you use its Favorites buttons to call up external sounds (alone or in combination) as easily as internal ones. Convenient patch selection is actually a weakness of many boards that are marketed as controllers.

Can a VST/Kross system be implemented with a laptop + Kross?

Absolutely.

As for the overall topic of the thread...

I have both a Krome Ex and a Kross 2, and from what I have previously read on the internet, it sounded like the main differences were the number of samples, the number of effects, and some of the synth engine parameters. However, there are some other critical differences that users should be aware of.

There are certainly lots of differences between the Kross and Krome, but they are not all attributable to EDS-i vs. EDS-x (vs. EDS). The number of samples, the number of effects, is not directly (or only) tied to that sound engine choice. For example, Kross and Microstation are both EDS-i; Microstation has 5 Insert, 2 Master, plus Total effects (just like the EDS M50 and EDS-X Krome), but the Kross does not have the Total effects. Microstation has 360 (non-drum) multisamples, Kross (again, same EDS-i engine) has 421. Krome has 583, M50 has 1077 (the greatest number of samples, even though Krome's EDS-X is the newer version of the sound engine). EDS-X *does* increase the amount of sample data that can be addressed ("allowing more than ten times as much PCM sound data to be controlled" according to the Krome quick start guide), though that's not the same as "number of samples."

EDS-i is a scaled down version of EDS, though I don't know where its relative limitations/compromises lie. EDS-X, as I mentioned, can address more wave memory (presumably what enables the the big piano samples of the Krome), and I seem to remember seeing that it adds additional EQ and filter options, though I can't find any official Korg reference for that atm. I think whether a difference in effects quality between Kross and Krome can be attributed to the EDS-i vs. EDS-X sound engine or something else seems like speculation, but such an observation is notable regardless!