pa4x song & style mode

[karmathanever]

When I had Genos I could play an audio song and at the same time practice it in style mode, which I can't with Korg. I have to play the audio song on another device (laptop).

How can you do that unless your audio songs are derived from a locked-in MIDI tempos?

I have never understood why this was a "needed" feature.

Pete

(Note: I'm NOT arguing here, just extremely curious )

[Bartjuhx3]

I think the pa4x is just more versatile then we can just imagine? Or tzll me
If i’m wrong...

I sold my Roland for a Pa4x half weighted instead of a Genos.

With some ES i think the korg is the best. But minar is not out of the box the best sounds/sets etc.

What do you guys think?

[Simke]

Sorry it looks like I didn't express myself well.
When I want to learn a new song, I learn it by listening to a certain audio recording, finding the right style, and then rehearsing the song.
With Genos I could do it so I don't have to choose a particular style or song mode ... everything is in "the same" mode!
Of course there is no arguing and of course this is not a "nedeed" feature, that's why I wrote the second sentence in the above post, which I don't know why you didn't quote !?
Respect!

[karmathanever]

Of course there is no arguing and of course this is not a "nedeed" feature, that's why I wrote the second sentence in the above post, which I don't know why you didn't quote !?

I was not insinuating that you had said it was "needed" (respect also) - I was referring to the fact that this has been requested before a few times and I am seriously puzzled as to how one would "play along" with an MP3 with a style unless the MP3 was created from a locked-in MIDI tempo. Just curious still - not criticising

I use MP3s on my PA4X for practice but as a quick convenient on-board player.

Would like wav file recording and playback!!!

Cheers

Pete

[Korghelper]

In fairness, the vast amount of pop music has been played to a click since the 80’s. Then add in that it’s fairly easy to automatically generate an accurate click track to audio that can then generate tempo changes for an SMF that mimic the tempo fluctuations in a looser track. If the clock of the SMF drives the clock of the style tracks, sync shouldn’t be an issue.

Finally, it’s not that difficult nowadays to ‘straighten up’ the tempo of mildly fluctuating audio so that style and audio can run together without clocking the style from the audio.

One definitely useful idea for being able to do this is to use a drum track from a multitrack audio recording, and then use the style for the rest... As a bass baritone, I often find that audio tracks can’t be pitch shifted low enough for my voice without some very nasty artifacts in the pitched parts (and a bassline that descends into mud!). Locking the style to the audio drums would at least allow better or more authentic drum and percussion parts to drive the style. Combine that with a preset chord sequence for the style, and you’ve got a pretty locked combo song...

Then there’s the case for adding modern breakbeat type SMF loops (a good use for the multipads) over a more traditional audio backing. This is a cool way to spice up a vintage audio track.

Styles and audio in sync offer a lot of creative possibilities....

[Simke]

When learning a new song there is no need for the style to play at the same time as the mp3 ... that's not the point ... it's just annoying to skip from one mode to another.
There are other things that Yamaha has done better, for example: functions in Global mode can be set for each song separately, a two-channel audio recorder, etc.
Of course, Korg did some things better, such as Style Creator, Vocal harmony, etc.
If you want to make a style from a factory one on a Yamaha arranger, you have to delete all channels except drum and percussions, which is,to put it mildly,unfair. A fellow musician said "yes, it's their intellectual property, but we paid dearly for it"!

[ckobu]

If you want to make a style from scratch on a Yamaha arranger, you have to delete all channels except drum and percussions, which is totally incorrect.

People don’t know all the possibilities that Yamaha can. One example is found in the citation and is solved with a single mouse click.
https://youtu.be/dgyPbUpkLvE

Changing the octave on the Style channel is the second most common example. Many do not know that Yamaha's solution is better and more flexible than Korg.

But not to be too off topic. Synchronizing the tempo of the MP3 and the selected style is easily adjusted in the song player itself. It doesn’t matter if you exercise at home or use live performance, it must be acknowledged that this is a very usable option. And it's nothing technically advanced or unusual, but it's worth having this option in the keyboard itself.

I know this is Korg’s forum and it’s completely understandable to me that some may get angry that I’m highlighting things that Yamaha has handled better. It is not my intention to favor, but just to share my experience to make the comparison as realistic as possible. After all, Yamaha has missed a lot of what Korg has had for a long time. Things changed somewhat with the arrival of Genos. I also hope that some new Korg (5x) will get all the features that users want.[/url]

[karmathanever]

I know this is Korg’s forum and it’s completely understandable to me that some may get angry that I’m highlighting things that Yamaha has handled better. It is not my intention to favor, but just to share my experience to make the comparison as realistic as possible.

Not at all.. good to hear about these things and I'm sure there are several. I really really liked the Tyros-5 and came close to making it my main arranger however, even with the Tyros-6 (Genos) Yamaha have still not improved it for performing and recording IMHO - yes, I am biased, but only because the PA4X provides ease of performance and hence, when recording too. I've owned many Yamaha arrangers including Tyros and so wish Yamaha would really update their OS structure - they have recently discovered "the joystick" and "touch-screen" technology so there's hope I guess.

But, if owners want to deep tweak and fiddle then both keyboards can satisfy those needs. We all use these arrangers in different ways which I fully appreciate.

play, play play & have fun....

Pete

[ckobu]

I love your kind of sarcasm in the answers and highlighting parts of the quotes to misunderstand the overall context.
I hope the Korg PA4X gets a successor worthy of the PA series and you don’t have to wait until 2025.

[siebenhirter]

.. it’s completely understandable to me that some may get angry that I’m highlighting things that Yamaha has handled better. It is not my intention to favor, but just to share my experience to make the comparison as realistic as possible. ... also hope that some new Korg (5x) will get all the features that users want ...

That's right to be understandable - and we, as Korg users, are a very peculiar species, some of which are not only more than angry but downright insulting if you point out several times over a long period of time which inadequacies were provided with the last series of keyboards or which were simply missing and Korg does not fix this with an update.

Mostly this concerns style play functions - like to mention just a few, like the missing fill mode on the Pa1000 or the StyleToKbdSet function, which is unusable for playing with the songbook, which allows only one style to be played without interruption.

It is also hardly understood that the intention is to communicate experiences, to improve things and to remove inadequacies, but rather creates a counterproductive mood, which is partly responsible if further useful functions quietly disappear with each further successor model.

It is not a reasonable justification, but references to better solutions from other producers cause incomprehensible hostility not only in the Korg forum - an insulted resistance to advice and information unfortunately also was common practice in the Yamaha forum.

.. .. love your kind of sarcasm in the answers ..

To play, play, play and have fun is a friendly, polite, harmless phrase but an ineffective invitation for those who use their keyboard professionally, because in order to earn a living with it, they anyway are forced to play, play ...

In discussions in which recognized weaknesses and inadequacies of the favorite brand are pointed out - or better solutions from the competition are pointed out - it remains a farce for everyone, including the hobby musician, because he wants to play, play, play and have fun with the hope of that this becomes better possible when weak points and inadequacies would be eliminated.

.. I hope the Korg PA4X gets a successor worthy of the PA series and you don’t have to wait until 2025 .. also hope that some new Korg (5x) will get all the features that users want ...

Replacing missing arguments with friendly phrases is known from politics and business, but they have never contributed to improved product development. So even with Korg's next models no real improvements in the points mentioned can be expectedl. It would be better to argue soberly and regardless of the manufacturer of the keyboard.

Publishing to be satisfied with play, "play and have fun what was put in front of your nose as it is" seems to be partly responsible for poor product management, but is not a motivation to make things less bad but better!

[macluit]

Hey there

My 2 cents concerning this type of discussions
When we buy a car we easely spend 5 to 10 times the amount of money then when buying a pro keyboard.
Are you shouting of a Mazda because the coffiecupholders are less functional then the ones of a Ford ?
It is imho the sum of all is the reason of your choice
And of you don’t like the cupholders that much, dont buy the car.

Stay Safe, Ben

[siebenhirter]

.. When we buy a car ..

You are in the wrong forum - a car can hardly be compared with the diverse, directly operable functions of a keyboard, in which functional reductions compared to earlier models only turn out to be missing or inadequate if the keyboard is used frequently in same manne as in previous models.

The recommendation to choose a different model is just as much a killer argument to stifle factual discussions about unsatisfactory functions as same publishing to ignore them and to be happy with play and have fun.
*
The inability to use Pa1000 styles and songs synchronously and together can neither be denied nor qualified as useful or not useful.

But it is at least to be expected that here one could discuss objectively, without confrontation recurring and inapplicable killer phrases again and again, when it comes to weak points, which OPs actually expect a reasonable answer.

[Korghelper]

I think the most constructive discussions about arrangers focus more on what great features on other arrangers we want to be ported to our own ones than focusing on the strengths of the gear we already own in some kind of “mine is better than yours!“ thing...

I mean, we already HAVE what we have LOL. What we should be focusing on is what ELSE it could have! And accepting that there are features on other equipment that would be amazing to have doesn’t lessen what we do have.

Manufacturers don’t respond well to complacency. It’s stifles innovation and progress. The more fuss you make about a competitor’s great features, the more likely that your manufacturer will develop them. But nothing but praise (and scorn towards other products) makes them feel that they are already good enough. None of them are EVER good enough! Not until they ALL have every single great feature included… And when is that ever going to happen?!

Embrace other manufacturers’ strengths… Don’t put them down. One day, hopefully, THEIR strengths will become YOUR strengths!

[siebenhirter]

.. some kind of “mine is better than yours!“ thing... we already HAVE what we have ..

That is true - in this thread it would have been enough to accept that with Korgs Pa1000 it is not possible to use both options (Style + Song) at same time as can be done with Yamahas.

Some users are looking for this function at Korg, without to discuss in general whether the Yamaha or Korg in general has the better arranger and what else other properties are responsible for it.

There is not need for a smug recommendation to return the Pa4x and to sacrifice a little more pocket money and wish good luck on a return to the Dark Side - that really is the opposite of constructive discussion and should be avoided.