TB 303 samples for the Kronos?

omvibraphone · Post by **omvibraphone** » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:37 pm

Hi all,
looking for some nice tb303 sounds for my new Kronos, the onboard presets aren't really doing it for me. Saw there was a thread here discussing utilizilng the ms20 sound engine to create similar sounds, but are there other sounds/ samples people have loaded into their kronoses that sound better? links etc?
Thanks

SKung · Post by **SKung** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:18 am

TB303 is a difficult one. It's the interaction between filter and resonance that makes its sound unique.

So just importing some multisampled into HD-1 and increasing lowpass-filter and resonance won't work.

There are some VSTs out there that try to emulate that, some of them are quite good at it and some are even freeware.

I thought about making some multisamples from a VST using single notes with different filter settings (from darker to brighter sounds) and then applying those multisamples to different velocity layers.
So that with low velocity the darker samples are being played on the Kronos and with higher velocity the brighter ones.

Not very flexible but at least it would give a decent sound for some kind of backing track.

But I never had the time to try that out.

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:04 pm

Agreed, it is tricky to re-create that 303 squelch, but it can be done. I even did it on my Alesis Fusion with its pretty limited filters.

The TB303 filter a 3-pole (18dB), so it's halfway between the Kronos 12dB and 24dB LPF. This means you'll want to try a single 24dB with low cutoff/hi res (30dB cutoff, 70 res). Or you can go the route of emulating the MS20 filters -- HP into LP.

The filter on the MS-20 can get squelchy enough as a starting point, and there's plenty of youtube videos with acid examples. You'll probably want to add a distortion to get closer.

Hopefully our resident expert Charles will chime in with examples. I know he's really digging the MS20 atm. $\:D/$

==============================

Someone in this forum made a FreePack.PCG. It has a DistBass in it that is pretty good. If you want to roll up your sleeves, here are the ingredients:

From the ROM mono bank:
377 SynRezo - ARP2600
1125 Square

OD/High Gain Wah FX
Pre-lowcut: 5
Drive Mode: Hi Gain
Drive: 70

Distortion EQ section:
Mid1: 3.2kHz, Q 1, boosted +10
Mid2 8.5kHzm Q 7, cut -7

omvibraphone · Post by **omvibraphone** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:47 pm

Hey, thanks for the tips, appreciated.
Does anyone have a link to the freepack.pcg mentioned? I guess 'search' will help me as well

SKung · Post by **SKung** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:49 pm

Didn't found anything on this forum or the web about freepack.pcg or DistBass

Anybody wanting to collaborate and work on some 303 sounds? I could start a repository on Gitlab where everybody can upload and edit 303-patches, FX settings, MIDI files, audio demos and some documentation. All should be open source.

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:41 pm

I guess it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. Here's how to do it from scratch:

Basic sound
start with an INIT Exi. Set it to monophonic legato. Common ==> Basic/Vector tab.
Set the OSC1 to Saw/Pulse, morph at 50 (which is half saw, half pulse)
Leave OSC2 as is, but change its octave to +1[4'].
Turn on Osc Sync, and put the FM up to max 100. (getting squelchy, eh?)
Add a sub square if you want (in the OSC Mixer section).

GROOVE
Set up an automatic groove to work with. Let's use KARMA.
Search KARMA GE for "acid." I chose Acid Jazz. Turn KARMA on and latch it.
Press a low Eb or C. The groove needs to be adjusted to your taste.
Press the Play/Control Surface tab, and switch to RT/KARMA view.
Switch Bend On, and Force Mono.
Now move and adjust the KARMA sliders to taste until you get a good groove to work on.

FILTER
Set it to 4-pole LPF.
Cutoff around 66, res around 80.
Go to the Filter Mod tab, and set Velocity Int to 10, EG Int to 20.
Now let's make a macro using LFO2, so that it does a slow filter sweep up then resets. This just makes the groove a little more interesting.
Go to Filter LFO Mod tab, and set it to LFO2, intensity 25.
Go to LFO2 tab, slow the rate to 20, and change waveform to Exp Saw Up.

FX for the magic sauce
Let's send the sound through an IFX chain. We'll use distortion and delay.
Go to IFX/Routing tab. Set Bus Select to IFX1.
Go to Insert FX tab. Turn on IFX1, chain it to IFX2, and turn it on as well.
Set IFX1 to OD/Hi-Gain Wah. Choose your poison from the presets (upper right).
(Don't forget you can use the distortion EQ to tailor the sound.)
Set IFX2 to Stereo Dynamic Delay, using the DDL Note Off preset. (or whatever you want).

You can also use the EQ tab to shape the sound as you like.

Let's add a touch of vintage and grunge FX on the side.
Set the Master and Total FX choices on the MFX/TFX ==> Routing tab.
MFX1 = Stereo Decimator, preset Vintage 2. Return = 50.
TFX1 = Stereo Tube Emulator, preset Vintage.
TFX2 = Stereo Mastering Limiter, preset Mix MaxMax!! (optional)

That wasn't so hard, now was it?

SKung · Post by **SKung** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:15 pm

Thanks, I followed your guide and made a patch out of it. Did slight adjustments; didn't use MFX/TFX and a Stereo BPM delay instead. Moreover I added Joystick -Y as a AMS for the filter frequency to play around a bit.
Here's a short demo (MP3, 1MB):
https://ufile.io/sls2xzm7

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:31 pm

SKung wrote:Thanks, I followed your guide and made a patch out of it. Did slight adjustments; didn't use MFX/TFX and a Stereo BPM delay instead. Moreover I added Joystick -Y as a AMS for the filter frequency to play around a bit.
Here's a short demo (MP3, 1MB):
https://ufile.io/sls2xzm7

Very nice, good to see an idea go from concept to written words to actual music in just a few hours!

SKung · Post by **SKung** » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:25 am

Found a written explanation much more useful than just providing a patch.

SKung · Post by **SKung** » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:24 am

https://ufile.io/zmk4o5vw

Made another one, this time from scratch, used a 2600 waveform and assigned all modulations for filter and resonance to the Joystick -y

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:09 am

SKung wrote:Found a written explanation much more useful than just providing a patch.

Give a man a patch, and he'll make music that day.

Show him how to program one, and he'll make music for life.

CharlesFerraro · Post by **CharlesFerraro** » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:33 pm

psionic311 wrote:
SKung wrote:Found a written explanation much more useful than just providing a patch.
Give a man a patch, and he'll make music that day.

Show him how to program one, and he'll make music for life.

Haha I love this. Great job on the patch!
Also thank you for the compliment in your earlier post.

omvibraphone · Post by **omvibraphone** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:54 pm

Well, both those sound very nice, especially liked the 'Winkism' of the second track. Any chance links to the patches could be shared?

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:52 pm

SKung wrote:Thanks, I followed your guide and made a patch out of it. Did slight adjustments; didn't use MFX/TFX and a Stereo BPM delay instead. Moreover I added Joystick -Y as a AMS for the filter frequency to play around a bit.
Here's a short demo (MP3, 1MB):
https://ufile.io/sls2xzm7

great job, it has a little bit of the 303 feel. I use phoscyon for that nowadays, but 6 years ago i did something similar on the kronos with the ms/20 engine.

althought the video sound quality is not up to par to current standards (due to the hideous youtube conversion algorithms back in those days, it sounds much better in real life). But it gives an example of what's possible when using KARMA in combi mode and some custom sound to create Acid jams.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/M0-ZJST5A-k" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture"></iframe>