Korg Kronos OR Yamaha Montage 8?

[GregC]

The only thing you can do is go for the board that does the best across the board job in terms of bread and butter sounds.

I'd love for a co. to get super-ambitious and try to be the best at everything. There has to be at least ONE company with that mindset, right?

So, if I asked you to name the best all-in-one boards, who would they be? I'm talking everything from BnB sounds to synth sounds. What would be your top three, in order?

I tried to point out " bread and butter " is not clear to me. It could mean different sounds to different people. So what is bread and butter to you ? What
instrument categories ?

I can state for 'synths ' I think Kronos is stronger. But that is a topic that needs to be thoroughly discussed and understood.

For what I do, things like pianos, electric pianos, organs, and strings are an absolute must. Layering and splits are important, too. Guitars, brass, etc, etc. etc, those are all important, but are of secondary importance. Frankly, I have play those on the top board.

But, yeah ... my meat and potatoes are piano, EPs, strings, and organs.

very good. We discussed AP's or I gave my 'opinion '.

EP's are very close. Might be a tie. I like the Kronos EP engine. And the Kronos FX on EP's are very strong. Since this might be 'preference', you should make the call.

Kronos strings are very good and record beautifully. I use the mellotrons heavily. But I think Yamaha has more variety of string sounds. Its too close to call.
Its possible that Yamaha string sections are more realistic. If so, Montage
wins that A/B compare.

[GregC]

https://youtu.be/CDCchm2zP6s

the problem I have is the first 50 seconds.

The tester had reverb on the Montage AP's

Kronos AP's were dry.

[leonh]

Personally I think Kronos got better piano sound it sounds fuller to me simple as that I had Montage so speaking from my experience.

[jimknopf]

I would only consider other boards, if I needed only limited bread and butter sounds, and less advanced functionality.

For bread and butter sounds, what is the best for bread and butter sounds, with no budgetary limitations?

From your answer it becomes obvious to me that it is you, not us, to answer that question.

- are you someone who has limited sonic challenges for basic bread & butter sounds, and mainly wants simplicity of use, shying away from some deeper learning, even if that includes a lot more sonic possibilities? Then go for the actual Nord Stage
- or are you someone who wants high sonic quality, utter sound shaping flexibility and workstation plus masterkeyboard power, at the price of learning to handle your synth step by step? Then there is ZERO alternative for the Kronos out there.
- or do you think you could have both at the same time: then you are just dead wrong. The choice is completely up to you, not to external proposals, when it comes to this basic decision about yourself, not the board: what do you want to do with it? And how much are you willing to learn using something more powerful, over something more limited, but easier to access?

As I said: the choice is up to you, not to us!

[ChasingPerfection]

I would only consider other boards, if I needed only limited bread and butter sounds, and less advanced functionality.

For bread and butter sounds, what is the best for bread and butter sounds, with no budgetary limitations?

From your answer it becomes obvious to me that it is you, not us, to answer that question.

- are you someone who has limited sonic challenges for basic bread & butter sounds, and mainly wants simplicity of use, shying away from some deeper learning, even if that includes a lot more sonic possibilities? Then go for the actual Nord Stage
- or are you someone who wants high sonic quality, utter sound shaping flexibility and workstation plus masterkeyboard power, at the price of learning to handle your synth step by step? Then there is ZERO alternative for the Kronos out there.
- or do you think you could have both at the same time: then you are just dead wrong. The choice is completely up to you, not to external proposals, when it comes to this basic decision about yourself, not the board: what do you want to do with it? And how much are you willing to learn using something more powerful, over something more limited, but easier to access?

As I said: the choice is up to you, not to us!

This is purely about the quality of the sounds.

Whatever I have to do to get the sounds I'm looking for, I am more than willing to do.

At the same time, if there is a board that has A+ presets, and other boards that have A+ capability, but B- presets, I'll go for the board that requires the least work. However, If, say, the Nord's full sonic capability is regarded as a B+, and the Kronos, straight out the box, is regarded as a B+, then I'm going for the Kronos.

I just want what is considered the best, even if I have to work for it.

[19naia]

Since you mentioned being willing to pay $5000....

Now that the MODX is out and it carries all of Montage sounds, sound quality, plus superknob and other unique things about montage, you could get the 88 key kronos and add for 33% the cost of a kronos -a 61 key MODX.

I think an 88 key Kronos and a 61 key MODX will come out to right about $5000-usd. Maybe enough change to buy a sustain pedal and the cables to link the two.
You end up with the sounds of both Kronos and Montage, all for $5000.
If all you need is 61 keys on any board, then get both in 61 key version and pay even less than $5000-usd.

Great thing about Kronos is that it is built to work with other midi Keyboards.
MODX will bring the Montage style super knob which will only add to Kronos already extensive control surface options.

If you can physically manage two keyboards, then get both and thank yourself later when you find certain limitations in kronos that MODX is able to go beyond. It may be in DAW integration or midi USB to Midi 5 pin barriers.
At the very least, montage pedal/foot switch inserts only multiply the total assignable pedal/foot switch inserts that can affect both or either keyboards. Such that kronos allows two of them and MODX allows two and the sum total of 4 foot controls can be used to control each or both boards all together.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboar ... ynthesizer

https://youtu.be/DDVCmhrSyJ0

Kronos has Karma on board. Yamaha requires you buy Karma soft ware. Kronos Karma will be able to drive MODX sounds.
Also, Kronos has no regular Arppegiator, but MODX does. MODX Arppegiator may be able to drive Kronos sounds.

Maybe i missed knowing other advantages to having both keyboards.

MODX is exactly what Montage is sound wise. And is exactly the same in other ways. Anything you would be missing from the Montage, it would be more than made up for by MODX+kronos combo.

Best of both worlds people.
Who would’nt eat the best cake and still have another kind to eat with it for major blend. I used to do Carrot cake, Cheese cake and chocolate cake all together. I would eat a bit of each all in the same mouthful.

Since this thread first posted, significant chages have come about.
MODX just came out few weeks ago and brings all of the Montage sounds and i think Yamaha may have been forced to do that to offset poor sales of Montage. Cheaper options to Montage, such as Kronos and Roland FA, would make it hard for Montage to compete esepcially with its lack of serious sequencer and more that Kronos offers for less.

So Montage compared to Kronos is an expired idea today.
Some people did get Montage and added it to Kronos setup.
If all they needed were montage sounds, then that was a costly move compared to MODX option today.
If they really did need the full power of Montage added to an already powerful Kronos, then more power to them.

[GregC]

[

This is purely about the quality of the sounds.

Whatever I have to do to get the sounds I'm looking for, I am more than willing to do.

At the same time, if there is a board that has A+ presets, and other boards that have A+ capability, but B- presets, I'll go for the board that requires the least work. However, If, say, the Nord's full sonic capability is regarded as a B+, and the Kronos, straight out the box, is regarded as a B+, then I'm going for the Kronos.

I just want what is considered the best, even if I have to work for it.[/quote]

that sounds like a fair approach.

There is something more. You have powerful FX on both boards. Both have their own 'mode ' approach.

FX and stereo imaging are used frequently to boost sound quality.

For example if you decide to run Korg AP's in mono you will hear some of the life removed from them.

Recall what I said before- try to define your requirements.

Anyway, a strong point of Kronos is its Program mode editing. While Korg
does a good job with middle of the road FX in each Program, you can quickly achieve dramatic results by playing with different FX.

I understand that Montage is not as easy to work with in voice mode.

The reverse is true is true with Performance vs Combi mode. Its not dead simple to make several changes to Korg Combis.

For example, if there are 4 Karma patterns running full tilt, you might want to simplify that - it will take some time.

For Montages Performance mode, I understand its easier. It might be due to easier navigation, I am not 100%

Anyway, thats a point for buying a $3500 keyboard- you want to get at the sophistication for more power. If you want to bang around on presets, there are less expensive models than Kronos and Montage.

And MODX is the sharp priced keyboard below Montage. I would assume you have heard of it.

[Ricky]

I've just been through the exact same decision making.
I ordered a Kronos.

Luckily I could borrow a Montage from a friend, and I testet it against my Oasys.

I was very disappointed with the Montage.
Not the internal sounds themselves, but the output was dull, no highs and not very dynamic.
Seems like it is cheap D/A converters in the Montage.

I made these short samples of each instrument:

Oasys
http://lethsparty.dk/oasysmontage/oasys.wav

Montage
http://lethsparty.dk/oasysmontage/montage.wav


Yamaha made som strange decisions designing the Montage.
The worst being midichannels "hardcoded" to multitimbral parts.
(for my use that is).


Be sure to test both before buying. I almost ordered the Montage, but changed my mind as soon as I testet it against my Oasys (which should be the same sound as the Kronos).

Best regards

Ricky

[19naia]

It never ends up being just about sound once you get the sounds you want.
What you can do with the sounds on boards like Kronos, Nord and MODX, makes a world of difference.
If you end up without Nord and its unique and superb bread and butter sounds, kronos and MODX can easily be mated to a computer/laptop and that can add over ten thousand sounds from Software sound sets like what Spectrasonics offers.
I know Spectrasonic goes over the top on so many sounds, but they have superb bread an butter sounds as well as edits that can be done to them.

Kronos alone can bring in all kinds of 3rd party sounds beyond just the factory set. So it is more about what sounds are you willing to pay extra to get,
rather than what sounds does it come with.

You are not stuck with what you get, when you get a kronos. It is open ended as far as making Kronos play sounds you want it to play.
Don’t forget software sound sets that you can control from kronos and play from Kronos keys.

[ChasingPerfection]

Since you mentioned being willing to pay $5000....

I don't recall if I made it on the previous page, but I'm willing to do that for one board. I want two. I don't have a budget. I DO, but if the top end boards are $5k - give or take a thousand or two - budget is not an issue in regards to buying two top end boards. These are going to last me for the long-haul, so I am not opposed to spending $15k. I will get the most out of them.

I don't know if that changes your opinion, though.

If it doesn't, I'm assuming you're saying the best all-in-one boards on the market are the Montage/MODX and Kronos?

[GregC]

[qu
If it doesn't, I'm assuming you're saying the best all-in-one boards on the market are the Montage/MODX and Kronos?

Montage and MODX are not ' all in one boards. Neither has a SEQ.
Both are fairly called 'performance synths'.

Kronos has a very useable SEQ.

But we are getting into spec.
You can eval that separately

I think your only topic focus/criteria was ' sound '.

[ChasingPerfection]

[qu
If it doesn't, I'm assuming you're saying the best all-in-one boards on the market are the Montage/MODX and Kronos?

Montage and MODX are not ' all in one boards. Neither has a SEQ.
Both are fairly called 'performance synths'.

Kronos has a very useable SEQ.

But we are getting into spec.
You can eval that separately

I think your only topic focus/criteria was ' sound '.

Yes, that's what I meant. Totally in regards to sounds. All boards are going to be strong in some places to weaker in others. Basically what I'm asking is, if you were to grade each sound - especially bread and butter sounds - on a scale of 1 to 10 in both the Kronos and Montage/MODX - as tedious as that would be - would those two boards have the highest average score?

[GregC]

[qu
If it doesn't, I'm assuming you're saying the best all-in-one boards on the market are the Montage/MODX and Kronos?

Montage and MODX are not ' all in one boards. Neither has a SEQ.
Both are fairly called 'performance synths'.

Kronos has a very useable SEQ.

But we are getting into spec.
You can eval that separately

I think your only topic focus/criteria was ' sound '.

Yes, that's what I meant. Totally in regards to sounds. All boards are going to be strong in some places to weaker in others. Basically what I'm asking is, if you were to grade each sound - especially bread and butter sounds - on a scale of 1 to 10 in both the Kronos and Montage/MODX - as tedious as that would be - would those two boards have the highest average score?

Since money is no object.

And you only have 4 criteria.
Kronos excels in 2 top sound categories. EP's are a tie. Strings a very slight edge to MODX.

Simplistically, that is a very close win for Kronos. But neither board is that 'simple' thus
I don't agree with such narrow criteria for a $3500 decision.

But I don't mind playing along since most have their own slant on a keyboard choice.

You really should try out the MODX. Its a no brainer for value and sound. But thats opposite of your approach.

[ChasingPerfection]

Montage and MODX are not ' all in one boards. Neither has a SEQ.
Both are fairly called 'performance synths'.

Kronos has a very useable SEQ.

But we are getting into spec.
You can eval that separately

I think your only topic focus/criteria was ' sound '.

Yes, that's what I meant. Totally in regards to sounds. All boards are going to be strong in some places to weaker in others. Basically what I'm asking is, if you were to grade each sound - especially bread and butter sounds - on a scale of 1 to 10 in both the Kronos and Montage/MODX - as tedious as that would be - would those two boards have the highest average score?

Since money is no object.

And you only have 4 criteria.
Kronos excels in 2 top sound categories. EP's are a tie. Strings a very slight edge to MODX.

Simplistically, that is a very close win for Kronos. But neither board is that 'simple' thus
I don't agree with such narrow criteria for a $3500 decision.

But I don't mind playing along since most have their own slant on a keyboard choice.

You really should try out the MODX. Its a no brainer for value and sound. But thats opposite of your approach.

Let me put it this way:

I am a very restless individual in certain regards. I am a quality nut. Any time I realize I'm being shorted on quality, I have a need to rectify that. Period.

I don't care about brand names, just quality. If you told me the greatest keyboard in the world, with A+ sounds in every sound category, didn't have a brand name on it, couldn't do anything else beyond play those sounds at the highest level, and was 15k, I'd buy it without thinking twice. If at NAMM '19, some company debuted a board that blew that board out of the water, I'd buy that board.

All I care about is playing music. I do no studio work at all. I'll do editing of sounds on the board if it means I'll get better sounds.

I know, to some people, that seems like a ridiculous reason to spend that much money, but I have to do what makes sense for me.

[GregC]

Yes, that's what I meant. Totally in regards to sounds. All boards are going to be strong in some places to weaker in others. Basically what I'm asking is, if you were to grade each sound - especially bread and butter sounds - on a scale of 1 to 10 in both the Kronos and Montage/MODX - as tedious as that would be - would those two boards have the highest average score?

Since money is no object.

And you only have 4 criteria.
Kronos excels in 2 top sound categories. EP's are a tie. Strings a very slight edge to MODX.

Simplistically, that is a very close win for Kronos. But neither board is that 'simple' thus
I don't agree with such narrow criteria for a $3500 decision.

But I don't mind playing along since most have their own slant on a keyboard choice.

You really should try out the MODX. Its a no brainer for value and sound. But thats opposite of your approach.

Let me put it this way:

I am a very restless individual in certain regards. I am a quality nut. Any time I realize I'm being shorted on quality, I have a need to rectify that. Period.

I don't care about brand names, just quality. If you told me the greatest keyboard in the world, with A+ sounds in every sound category, didn't have a brand name on it, couldn't do anything else beyond play those sounds at the highest level, and was 15k, I'd buy it without thinking twice. If at NAMM '19, some company debuted a board that blew that board out of the water, I'd buy that board.

All I care about is playing music. I do no studio work at all. I'll do editing of sounds on the board if it means I'll get better sounds.

I know, to some people, that seems like a ridiculous reason to spend that much money, but I have to do what makes sense for me.

ok. I am curious of your next step. Are you doing more opinion gathering or have you made a keyboard decision ?