Requests for PA4x.

striphio · Post by **striphio** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:51 am

I would like to se quality keybed like on M3 or kronos.

Sam CA · Post by **Sam CA** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:05 pm

striphio wrote:I would like to se quality keybed like on M3 or kronos.

Korg PA3x already has a high quality Keybed!

striphio · Post by **striphio** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:16 pm

Assyrianpianist wrote:
striphio wrote:I would like to se quality keybed like on M3 or kronos.
Korg PA3x already has a high quality Keybed!

It has solid quality keybed but not good as those workstations, but that is my feel and opinion.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:16 am

Interesting - we all have different experiences here...
I think the PA3X is a more solid and smoother feel than the Kronos (not by a lot - I actually enjoy playing the Kronos keybed)

But I am comparing semi-weighted and NOT fully-weighted so I can't comment on that.

Cheers

Pete

Sam CA · Post by **Sam CA** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:00 am

To complete the importing midi using markers experience, it would be nice if they add the support for PADs as well.

Also, in Style Record mode, there's no option to set a playback range, so everytime you stop it, it keeps going back to bar 1. Very annoying if you're working on bar 12 or something.

liongold · Post by **liongold** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:19 pm

I guess I'll have to get the Yami CP4 to get a REAL weighted board for my 3x, IMO.

Liongold

fResH_ · Post by **fResH_** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:56 pm

10+

Assyrianpianist wrote:Also, in Style Record mode, there's no option to set a playback range, so everytime you stop it, it keeps going back to bar 1. Very annoying if you're working on bar 12 or something.

DjStiky · Post by **DjStiky** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:13 pm

Assyrianpianist wrote:Also, in Style Record mode, there's no option to set a playback range, so everytime you stop it, it keeps going back to bar 1. Very annoying if you're working on bar 12 or something.

Also impossible to import a 1 bar time slice groove at bar 12. Gets inserted on bar 1.

fResH_ · Post by **fResH_** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:30 pm

11+

DjStiky wrote:
Assyrianpianist wrote:Also, in Style Record mode, there's no option to set a playback range, so everytime you stop it, it keeps going back to bar 1. Very annoying if you're working on bar 12 or something.
Also impossible to import a 1 bar time slice groove at bar 12. Gets inserted on bar 1.

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:34 pm

How about something new to the OS that is MUSICAL...

How about the Dynamic Arranger feature from Roland? Part velocity offsets based on how hard you are playing? Works amazingly well, especially if you have drum kits with multi-velocity drums - makes it sound amazingly dynamic.

How about a 'density' parameter? Play busy, backing gets busy. Play simple, backing thins out...

How about a Chord Sequence analyzer? Once a chord sequence is recorded, machine looks for ways to lead voices and walk basslines TOWARDS the next chord. The Achilles Heel of arrangers - zero voice leading and walking basslines because the machine never knows what the next chord is until you play it. Well, the Chord Sequencer does!

How about an audio looper as well as the Chord Sequencer..? There's a lot of stuff that is simply not designed for chord recognition tables. Use the looper to add non-chordal lines. Or to add vocal lines, whatever.

How about the ability to Save Chord Sequences, and Link them to Performance (or Songbook entries)? How about two or three Chord Sequences, choosable on the fly? Now you can loop the verse, OR a vamp, OR the solo section?

It's been a long time since arranger development focused on the MUSIC, rather than sounds. Plenty of work still to do!

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:28 am

How about a 'density' parameter? Play busy, backing gets busy. Play simple, backing thins out...

I personally wouldn't find that necessarily "musical" but would be nice to "control" it (pedal/knob/slider) - I guess this is why we have VARs but I understand what you are wishing for..

How about a Chord Sequence analyzer? Once a chord sequence is recorded, machine looks for ways to lead voices and walk basslines TOWARDS the next chord. The Achilles Heel of arrangers - zero voice leading and walking basslines because the machine never knows what the next chord is until you play it. Well, the Chord Sequencer does!
How about the ability to Save Chord Sequences, and Link them to Performance (or Songbook entries)? How about two or three Chord Sequences, choosable on the fly? Now you can loop the verse, OR a vamp, OR the solo section?

I miss the Chord (backing) Sequencer from the i-series arrangers - I wish Korg hadn't dumped it - it was simple to use and simple to edit.

Good luck with your wishes...

Pete

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:22 am

I don't really have a dog in this show (I only occasionally play a friend's PA3X61), but I'm always interested in anything any of them comes out with that pushes the MUSICAL range and responsiveness of an arranger to what you play...

Hopefully, if it's a really good one, sooner or later they all jump on the bandwagon..!

The way I see 'density' working is to create a reasonably busy drum part, lots of hi-hats, ghost snares, subsidiary beats and accents. Then lay a 'mask' over the simplest element of the beat (just the main beats to do a simple groove) so they play ALL the time. Then, as the arranger detects you playing faster (more notes per beat, for example) it adds back in the other notes (more masks, more gradation of the effect) to reflect YOUR playing more.

Same thing with rhythm guitar, percussion, even string lines, anything you feel works well.

This is essentially what great real players will do. If someone starts to go off, and get busier, they will respond to a certain degree. I think that COULD be done on an arranger. In fact, I think I remember that one of the now defunct arranger makers (Technics, possibly, I can't remember for sure) used to have a sort of version of this.

BTW, I don't think that the old Chord 'Track' feature on Korg's used to use the knowledge of the next chord coming to create voice leading and walking transitions. It simply acted as a trigger for the arranger's 'normal' structure. Only things like BIAB actually do this (to a certain degree). But if BIAB can do it offline, well, once a Chord Sequence is laid down, no reason why an arranger can't analyze it and create the same kind of voice leading...

In the meantime, the FIRST thing the Korg Chord Sequencer needs is a way to SAVE CS's once you create them, and load them linked to a Performance or Songbook entry. Then, you could create the Chord Track in advance. Even if you don't have step editing, you can always create them slowed WAY the heck down, to the point that you CAN play them accurately with no errors. Then speed them back up again! That gives you much of the old Chord Track functionality back...

Oh, and BTW... maybe it's a bit early to start complaining, but although Korg have JUST doubled the Fills to four from the PA2X's two, it is still short of Roland's six, and even THAT is woefully short of the 16 needed to have a dedicated transition for each Variation to Variation transition. Simply upping the number of fills means a more logical, less 'jumpy' transition across Variations. Something that has been a Korg weakness for a long time... Yes, things are better. But there is room for MUCH improvement.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:05 am

Hi Dikikeys

Firstly, these are just my personal reactions to your interesting thread having owned, performed and played arrangers for many years (Yamahas, Rolands, Casios and Korgs)

The way I see 'density' working is to create a reasonably busy drum part, lots of hi-hats, ghost snares, subsidiary beats and accents. Then lay a 'mask' over the simplest element of the beat (just the main beats to do a simple groove) so they play ALL the time. Then, as the arranger detects you playing faster (more notes per beat, for example) it adds back in the other notes (more masks, more gradation of the effect) to reflect YOUR playing more.
Same thing with rhythm guitar, percussion, even string lines, anything you feel works well.

As mentioned before, I would find this frustrating - I need to be in control of that, so the option to control that would be nice (which we sort-of have already).
This would frustrate me a bit like the SA sounds on the Tyros - they have a mind of their own and do things (although pleasant) that I want control over.

This is essentially what great real players will do. If someone starts to go off, and get busier, they will respond to a certain degree. I think that COULD be done on an arranger. In fact, I think I remember that one of the now defunct arranger makers (Technics, possibly, I can't remember for sure) used to have a sort of version of this.

Again - could be nice but as an option! Diving into a wild fast flute solo doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of the "band" goes wild - sometimes quite the opposite. If this was a built-in feature I think it would make me nervous - even from the point of view that the developers may have a totally different concept to mine in this regard.

BTW, I don't think that the old Chord 'Track' feature on Korg's used to use the knowledge of the next chord coming to create voice leading and walking transitions. It simply acted as a trigger for the arranger's 'normal' structure.

Correct - there would be thousands of permutations to consider here to even remotely satisfy all the keyboard owners. Can't imagine how the developers could even plan for this.

Only things like BIAB actually do this (to a certain degree). But if BIAB can do it offline, well, once a Chord Sequence is laid down, no reason why an arranger can't analyze it and create the same kind of voice leading...

So we are talking here about "playing back" a previously recorded "sequence"

In the meantime, the FIRST thing the Korg Chord Sequencer needs is a way to SAVE CS's once you create them, and load them linked to a Performance or Songbook entry. Then, you could create the Chord Track in advance. Even if you don't have step editing, you can always create them slowed WAY the heck down, to the point that you CAN play them accurately with no errors. Then speed them back up again! That gives you much of the old Chord Track functionality back...

Interesting concept but this seems just like playing along to a MIDI file (unless I have totally misunderstood).

Oh, and BTW... maybe it's a bit early to start complaining, but although Korg have JUST doubled the Fills to four from the PA2X's two, it is still short of Roland's six, and even THAT is woefully short of the 16 needed to have a dedicated transition for each Variation to Variation transition. Simply upping the number of fills means a more logical, less 'jumpy' transition across Variations. Something that has been a Korg weakness for a long time...

I wouldn't ever want 16 FILLs - I find having PA3X's 5 FILLs plus the ability to use INTROs 2&3 and even ENDINGS 2&3 for additional FILLs is more than I'll ever need. Plus the ability to use FILLs, INTROs and ENDINGs as additional VARs for a style. But as I said these are my personal views.

Yes, things are better. But there is room for MUCH improvement.

I guess "improvement" is in the eyes and ears of the beholder - adding all the wishlists, building in KARMA etc..etc.. will still never turn it into a keyboard that suit everyone and possibly push into a high price bracket. Korg have to sell these things and make money to survive.

I think the next move may be SSD and improved hardware (CPU etc..). Arrangers seem to sit behind the "workstation" technology and then gradually catch up.
A little more expansion flexibility would be welcomed - e.g. RAM!! (why do we have to buy the most expensive RAM (256MB - TINY!!!) and then have to drop the existing 128MB chip in the garbage???

PA4X (if that is what it is called) will be interesting.....

Cheers

Pete

bugzoo · Post by **bugzoo** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:27 am

How about simply being able to select ANY drum sound when setting the Kick and Snare in Style mode (not just the few predetermined). With hundreds of great drums, this is a very silly limitation that is a carryover from decades ago.

How about a simple Quantize Strength parameter and Quantize Swing parameter when designing Styles so that every style does not have to be robotic and with straight eighths? Style play should also allow the user to adjust the swing value.

Both of these are very basic features that are missing. They should be included in a new OS update for the PA3x as well!

Gotwald · Post by **Gotwald** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:30 pm

In my opinion, the biggest thing that should be improved in the new pa4x and all new korg arrangers, is its styles management. Roland & Yamaha arrangers allow to listen and play styles directly from the pendrive, and so allow to have all your styles collection (thousands of styles) into pendrive, ready to listen or play at any time and directly. But korg styles need to be first loaded into keyboard, not only to play them, but to listen them too.
It's a bit chaotic if someone has thousands of styles, he must to be loading and deleting constantly.
Similarly, the structure of styles in sets is relatively complex, and certainly less simple to use than Roland or Yamahas, where there are not styles sets, and nobody must extract a style from a set and to put it in another set.
Having used rolands and Yamahas for a long time, I find incomprehensible that Korg has not modernized its archaic styles management, which seems to be stuck in the era where there were no pendrives.