Speed Control of Rotary Speaker (Leslie) Effect for Organs

[kgardner]

There was another thread about speed control and an erroneous assertion was made that there is limited speed control possible. Thank you. This sparked my interest in reviewing the instructions on this topic. I have enjoyed using manual speed control using my expression pedal. Previously I was only using slow/fast speed change and on/off toggle switching via my EC5, Assignable Panel Switches or Y+ and Y- joystick.
Manual speed control can be activated by setting the expression pedal setting to i.e. Midi channel 13 and then in the Rotary Speaker Effect dialogue box, activate the Manual Speed check box and then assign source to i.e. Midi channel 13. Now your expression pedal manually controls the rotary speaker speed. It works. The effect is tasty!
On/Off switching does not remove the rotary effect instantly, rather, it winds down progressively to 0 RPM and then accelerates up to the set speed when turned back on.
Fast/Slow switching simply accelerates or decelerates between fast and slow at the rate you select.
Rather than transporting an actual Leslie rotating speaker around, I prefer to apply the effort to a set of two decent powered speakers (Yorkville) for good pan and stereo sound quality along with a Yorkville studio sub-woofer. This configuration produces an incredible sound for most large rooms I play (10 -12 concerts/week). Larger venues warrant the reinforcement of larger house PA systems which I elect to rent for the few occasions I don’t have access to house systems.
Those who have super sensitive taste and discernment can tweak the comprehensive control settings to achieve closer standards to their own ear’s contentment. Use of the manual speed control and speed change control will enhance the simulation and with a good stereo amplification system with well-designed speaker separation and bass reinforcement a very good performance can be achieved. When a forum member asserts that the PA1X Pro is only capable of fast/slow speed change then it would seem there is some technical knowledge missing and unflattering comments about the keyboard’s design are uncalled for.

[jazzmammal]

Good points. I was just researching the manual about this because I'm another long time B3/Leslie user and the organ sound is important to me. In addition to what you said the Korg also has mic placement controls for the close in stereo separation or the further out "club" sound, separate bass and horn controls and cabinet and amp simulations. This puts it right up there with the NI B4. With the right tweaking the Korg Leslie simulation is very good. A tip for you, if you really want that authentic warm fat sound, run the Korg through a real tube preamp before your PA system and adjust the drive to taste. It sounds great with the acoustic piano too.

Bob

[kgardner]

"If you really want that authentic warm fat sound, run the Korg through a real tube preamp before your PA system and adjust the drive to taste." Interesting... I haven't explored the tube pre-amp idea thinking that the amount of moving I do with my gear would just provide a ripe situation for breakdown of tube systems. I did note however that Hammond's Model XK-3C organ portable keyboard has a tube circuit for the reason you said. I am in Toronto area of Canada and do a lot of my shopping at Long and McQuade. Do you have any ideas on a durable brand that would be available here or perhaps used on a private sellers' web site?

[jazzmammal]

I use a Behringer Ultragain stereo preamp mounted in a rack and that solves the problem of having another separate item to have to plug in and maybe drop on the floor. Tubes are pretty robust though as long as you don't hit one with a hammer...I used to go on the road with two Fender Dual Showman all tube heads to power my Leslies years ago with no problem at all. There's tons of different tube pre's from guitar overdrive units to mic pre's to full size stereo preamps with all tube circuitry for over $1,000. I think any of them would work, but I'm sure some sound better than others. I have a friend who uses a small Real Tube guitar unit that sits on his keyboard using a velcro strip and sounds pretty good.

Bob

[Charley Brown]

Hello kgardner:

Your instructions were as follows ~ “i.e. Midi channel 13 and then in the Rotary Speaker Effect dialogue box, activate the Manual Speed check box and then assign source to i.e. Midi channel 13.”

Could you please provide very specific step by step instructions as to how to assign an expression pedal to manually operate the Leslie Rotary effect? I attempted but got as far as ?? Midi 13 but there are ‘Midi in’ and ‘Midi out’ and I did not see your “Rotary Speaker Effect dialogue box” option on the page that I was able to bring up. And so I could not activate the manual speed check box as you indicated because I saw none.

Also, is it possible to use all three ~ rotary on/off, fast/slow in addition to manual activation via an expression pedal?

Thanks ~ Charley Brown

[MadrasGiaguari]

Dear Kgardner,

about Leslie effect, specially the fast speed effect, I can't realize why the effect is so strong with some sample and almost a light Vibrato with other samples.

I know that this topic has been handled already in our Forum, but without real answers IMHO.

I had for many years an Hammond L142R organ with Leslie cabinet, and I don't recall that the fast rotary effect would significantly change from sound to sound.

Do you have any idea about adjustment that can be made to solve this problem?

Thank you anyway and Ciao!

Angelo

[Charley Brown]

Is the Poll not accessible?

I could not easily access it and with 355 viewers but only 5 responses thus far, it would appear that it is not. I’m guessing that there are more than 5 people interested in responding to the poll. What gives? Is it not functional?

Charley Brown

[kgardner]

Hello kgardner:

Your instructions were as follows ~ “i.e. Midi channel 13 and then in the Rotary Speaker Effect dialogue box, activate the Manual Speed check box and then assign source to i.e. Midi channel 13.”

Could you please provide very specific step by step instructions as to how to assign an expression pedal to manually operate the Leslie Rotary effect? I attempted but got as far as ?? Midi 13 but there are ‘Midi in’ and ‘Midi out’ and I did not see your “Rotary Speaker Effect dialogue box” option on the page that I was able to bring up.

Global Controllers is where you set the expression pedal (Pedal Footswitch) to FX CC12 or 13.
When you have your organ sound selected with Rotary Speaker (40) applied look in the Style Menu page for the Effects button. Rotary Speaker is usually found on the FX D tab at the bottom. The third line of text says "Manual Speed Control"... pull down the picklist and select the MIDI Controller Channel you set your pedal to send to.
If you don't have an expression pedal... you can use one of the assignable sliders in that page of the GLOBAL>>Controllers menu and the only 2 of the MIDI controller channels available to run with the sliders are 12 and 13.



Also, is it possible to use all three ~ rotary on/off, fast/slow in addition to manual activation via an expression pedal?

Thanks ~ Charley Brown

Global Controllers is where you set the expression pedal (Pedal Footswitch) to FX CC12 or 13.
When you have your organ sound selected with Rotary Speaker (40) applied look in the Style Menu page for the Effects button. Rotary Speaker is usually found on the FX D tab at the bottom. The third line of text says "Manual Speed Control"... pull down the picklist and select the MIDI Controller Channel you set your pedal to send to.
If you don't have an expression pedal... you can use one of the assignable sliders in that page of the GLOBAL>>Controllers menu and the only 2 of the MIDI controller channels available to run with the sliders are 12 and 13.
In answer to your last question, ... Yes, all three can be controlled by assigning swtiches or joystick actions or EC5 pedal set of switches.

The

[kgardner]

Hello kgardner:

Your instructions were as follows ~ “i.e. Midi channel 13 and then in the Rotary Speaker Effect dialogue box, activate the Manual Speed check box and then assign source to i.e. Midi channel 13.”

Could you please provide very specific step by step instructions as to how to assign an expression pedal to manually operate the Leslie Rotary effect? I attempted but got as far as ?? Midi 13 but there are ‘Midi in’ and ‘Midi out’ and I did not see your “Rotary Speaker Effect dialogue box” option on the page that I was able to bring up.

Global Controllers is where you set the expression pedal (Pedal Footswitch) to FX CC12 or 13.
When you have your organ sound selected with Rotary Speaker (40) applied look in the Style Menu page for the Effects button. Rotary Speaker is usually found on the FX D tab at the bottom. The third line of text says "Manual Speed Control"... pull down the picklist and select the MIDI Controller Channel you set your pedal to send to.
If you don't have an expression pedal... you can use one of the assignable sliders in that page of the GLOBAL>>Controllers menu and the only 2 of the MIDI controller channels available to run with the sliders are 12 and 13.



Also, is it possible to use all three ~ rotary on/off, fast/slow in addition to manual activation via an expression pedal?

Thanks ~ Charley Brown

Global Controllers is where you set the expression pedal (Pedal Footswitch) to FX CC12 or 13.
When you have your organ sound selected with Rotary Speaker (40) applied look in the Style Menu page for the Effects button. Rotary Speaker is usually found on the FX D tab at the bottom. The third line of text says "Manual Speed Control"... pull down the picklist and select the MIDI Controller Channel you set your pedal to send to.
If you don't have an expression pedal... you can use one of the assignable sliders in that page of the GLOBAL>>Controllers menu and the only 2 of the MIDI controller channels available to run with the sliders are 12 and 13.
In answer to your last question, ... Yes, all three can be controlled by assigning swtiches or joystick actions or EC5 pedal set of switches.

The

[jazzmammal]

Dear Kgardner,

about Leslie effect, specially the fast speed effect, I can't realize why the effect is so strong with some sample and almost a light Vibrato with other samples.

I know that this topic has been handled already in our Forum, but without real answers IMHO.

I had for many years an Hammond L142R organ with Leslie cabinet, and I don't recall that the fast rotary effect would significantly change from sound to sound.

Do you have any idea about adjustment that can be made to solve this problem?

Thank you anyway and Ciao!

Angelo

The reason the leslie effect is stronger for some patches and weaker in others is due to the chorus. A few of the raw PCM organ samples have the chorus in them but most don't. I discovered this a month or so ago because I heard the same thing. If you have a real Hammond, you can hear this easily. Turn off the chorus/vibrato and then use a leslie. The sound is not as full as combining the two effects. I also was disappointed to realize that the digital drawbars in the Korg does not include the chorus and there does not appear to be a way to add it. There's only 2 options for the basic wav organ sound, "hard" or "soft" and neither one has the chorus in it. If someone knows how to use a different PCM with the digital drawbars, let me know. I would love to have a digital drawbars setting of both straight (no chorus) or with chorus. It's odd that Korg overlooked this, it's standard usage with Hammond players and Korg has a very good Hammond clone in the CX3. Afaik, going into the Effects B section you can only use the rotator or chorus but not both. The Effects A is only for reverbs.

Bob

[kgardner]

Can you use the D to C or B to A control to put them in different order? What happens when you do Chorus in D and then send it to C for Rotary?