disappointing buy....

tim from texas · Post by **tim from texas** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:18 pm

i dont think you can really compare the 404 to the maschine either... EYE dont think thats a fair comparison... thats basically like putting the 404 against ableton or motus bpm... or just daw music creation in general... put it up against the mpc 500 or the akai xr20 and youre getting to a better comparison..

software + laptop + midi controller or stand alone drum machine

im glad you got a set up that is working well with your style but one of the cool things about working inside the boxes is figuring out ways to push things outside them...

Yatmandu · Post by **Yatmandu** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:31 pm

Ruso wrote:
laikenf wrote:I like my SP-404, in fact it's a vital tool in my setup. I can understand the fact that you find it kind of useless, but for the kind of music I make and the way I make it's essential because I only use the EMX on song mode. What I usually do is create patterns with voice samples I take from random films and or documentaries, etc. I've always found that quite hypnotic and it helps me create a groove; I also have the habit to connect my TD-12 V-Drums (I've always been a drummer) directly to the SP-404's L & R inputs jacks and sample drum beats so I can slice'em up with the 404 thanks to that Auto-sample feature.

I think it's a really fun sampler to work with, limited compared to the ESX, but I just see them as different instruments, like comparing a 4 string bass to a 6 string guitar; and besides it works great when combined with an EMX-1 (using the electribe as the master). You can do some craaaaaazy stuff with those two hooked up together. Another thing, go ahead and send that Roland to the KP3, now we're talking just plain insanity.

I'm working on my web page so I can post some songs to give you an example.
I'm not really saying that its a bad machine.... it does what it does.... and it is what it is and there is nothing more to it....

Fairly small bank, basic sampling features, basic sequencing features, pretty good but not great fx (although far superior to the electribes but not nearly as versatile)....

This day and age though I would highly recommend going for a NI Maschine..... although you are required to use a lap top with it, and that's what makes the sound... the box itself is very well laid out and the combination of their software and the maschine make it the sampler of the next generation. And for only a little more then the sp 404... you can get a brand new maschine on ebay for 400 bucks these days.... you can have probably the most powerful sampler out there.

I know you use ableton, so I'm wondering, is Maschine different in any way from Ableton+controller (say APC40 or an MPD pad)? I mean would you use both Maschine and Ableton or aren't they basically each giving you similar functionality.

As for the SP404, it's simple, it can hold a shitload of samples, it's a single track "sequencer", it has decent effects, and the sound quality is better than ESX, IMO. But you can easily replace it with a laptop + software.

Dj Pound · Post by **Dj Pound** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:37 pm

Bought one of these back in 2000 for 200 dollars, before I got my ES-1 or my MPC. I was sorely dissapointed

But the one thing that it did do well was hold very long samples, if only that!

tim from texas · Post by **tim from texas** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:38 pm

yea i almost bought a 202 a while back on craigslist and was about to go meet the guy when i read it didnt have a sequencer... only live recording... eww

i guess the reason i jumped in this thread is the wording of how "easy" it is to replace the 404 with a laptop and controller... a good controller can cost almost as much as the 404 and that not including the laptop which couldnt be junk either... then there is software...

yea the software thing is a lot more control and has a lot more good things going for it... but for a beginner getting into production or dabbling its not a terrible thing to do... the doods on the sp forums crank out some dope stuff week after week in the battles and the rules are pretty strict about only using the box and not using outside sources.. quality stuff has been made in my opinion... im not arguing or trying to start some big debate or anything like that... more just rambling my opinion...

Dj Pound · Post by **Dj Pound** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:34 pm

tim from texas wrote:yea i almost bought a 202 a while back on craigslist and was about to go meet the guy when i read it didnt have a sequencer... only live recording... eww

i guess the reason i jumped in this thread is the wording of how "easy" it is to replace the 404 with a laptop and controller... a good controller can cost almost as much as the 404 and that not including the laptop which couldnt be junk either... then there is software...

yea the software thing is a lot more control and has a lot more good things going for it... but for a beginner getting into production or dabbling its not a terrible thing to do... the doods on the sp forums crank out some dope stuff week after week in the battles and the rules are pretty strict about only using the box and not using outside sources.. quality stuff has been made in my opinion... im not arguing or trying to start some big debate or anything like that... more just rambling my opinion...

No doubt....Totally agree with everything you said about dudes being able to crank out hot sh*t using nothing but 404's. Its totally possible.
Hell, people are still churning out quality music on 22 year old samplers like the mpc-60 and SP-1200's with 10 seconds sample time

Ruso · Post by **Ruso** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:52 pm

Yatmandu wrote:
Ruso wrote:
laikenf wrote:I like my SP-404, in fact it's a vital tool in my setup. I can understand the fact that you find it kind of useless, but for the kind of music I make and the way I make it's essential because I only use the EMX on song mode. What I usually do is create patterns with voice samples I take from random films and or documentaries, etc. I've always found that quite hypnotic and it helps me create a groove; I also have the habit to connect my TD-12 V-Drums (I've always been a drummer) directly to the SP-404's L & R inputs jacks and sample drum beats so I can slice'em up with the 404 thanks to that Auto-sample feature.

I think it's a really fun sampler to work with, limited compared to the ESX, but I just see them as different instruments, like comparing a 4 string bass to a 6 string guitar; and besides it works great when combined with an EMX-1 (using the electribe as the master). You can do some craaaaaazy stuff with those two hooked up together. Another thing, go ahead and send that Roland to the KP3, now we're talking just plain insanity.

I'm working on my web page so I can post some songs to give you an example.
I'm not really saying that its a bad machine.... it does what it does.... and it is what it is and there is nothing more to it....

Fairly small bank, basic sampling features, basic sequencing features, pretty good but not great fx (although far superior to the electribes but not nearly as versatile)....

This day and age though I would highly recommend going for a NI Maschine..... although you are required to use a lap top with it, and that's what makes the sound... the box itself is very well laid out and the combination of their software and the maschine make it the sampler of the next generation. And for only a little more then the sp 404... you can get a brand new maschine on ebay for 400 bucks these days.... you can have probably the most powerful sampler out there.
I know you use ableton, so I'm wondering, is Maschine different in any way from Ableton+controller (say APC40 or an MPD pad)? I mean would you use both Maschine and Ableton or aren't they basically each giving you similar functionality.

As for the SP404, it's simple, it can hold a shitload of samples, it's a single track "sequencer", it has decent effects, and the sound quality is better than ESX, IMO. But you can easily replace it with a laptop + software.

The difference is that you can close the lap top and the maschine acts like a groove box..... what I mean is, it's intuitive, easy to use.... and has the same tweakability as any groove box but takes it to a whole new level....

Ableton+Controller is just that..... you cant make patterns without using a screen or a mouse and then play them back...

The only difference between maschine and a full hardware box is that a computer or a lap top does all the thinking.... which is a BIG advantage over the pathetic processors that exist inside your groove boxes....

You power them up, make a pattern mpc style, save it, perform it, access any parameter at any time.... you simply cannot make this in ableton with a controller.... I suppose you could and I would definitely be the person to do that and I have been meaning to do that for a long time but it's so much work it's not worth it.

Yatmandu · Post by **Yatmandu** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:56 am

Ruso wrote:
The difference is that you can close the lap top and the maschine acts like a groove box..... what I mean is, it's intuitive, easy to use.... and has the same tweakability as any groove box but takes it to a whole new level....

Ahhh, I was under the impression that Maschine had to be connected to a PC to perform. So what you're saying is that you can arrange everything using the power of the PC, but when it comes time to do a set/play live you can shut down the PC and use the Maschine solo? That's pretty damn good then.

Ruso · Post by **Ruso** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:02 am

nono you got me wrong.... you have to have the pc on at all times....

let me rephrase myself....

The machine's brains.... are the pc..... and everything is stored on the pc..... but the interface to make music is the hardware box.

But the point is... the bundle is designed to act like a full hardware box.

Daddylaser · Post by **Daddylaser** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:27 pm

i have an sp555 and it wipes the floor with the esx'

the sound quality is not in the same ball park at all.
and it is 100 times more versatile in regard to fx
but it takes time to figure out
its not an instant-fun "toy" like the esx

plosive · Post by **plosive** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:03 pm

if korg was smart and wrote the software, or if some independant programmer had the time and wanted to make some money - thanks to native control, the padKontrol is already capable of doing everything the Maschine can.. there's just no software to utilize it's features. korg is dropping the ball bigtime on this one.

Ruso · Post by **Ruso** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:47 am

plosive wrote:if korg was smart and wrote the software, or if some independant programmer had the time and wanted to make some money - thanks to native control, the padKontrol is already capable of doing everything the Maschine can.. there's just no software to utilize it's features. korg is dropping the ball bigtime on this one.

That's far from true.... for example.... you have NO visual feedback... there are no screens... not even close to enough buttons and knobs to control all the parameters and it has a pretty pathetic native mode feedback...

There is no one individual who can program a software that's anywhere close in any aspect to the maschine... it takes a BIG coordinated team of developers and testers not to mention designers to make such a software.

All I can say is... go to a guitar center and TRY one instead of making assumptions about them. The ONLY reason the maschine did not take off IS because people make assumptions about it like you. It's an AWESOME groove box, far superior to any other groove box I have worked with.

I don't mean to stir the pot but you can't just compare the maschine to a midi controller... even from a driver point of view.

Ruso · Post by **Ruso** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:49 am

I should probably mention that I am a programmer and own the pad kontrol and wrote my own software to run it in native mode... Also I am currently developing my own groove box project based on a similar concept you are talking about...

http://electribe-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=217

So anyway, really I'm not trying to stir the pot or raise havoc... I'm just saying go try it, and you'll understand why it's as good as it is. And it really is as good as I say and I only played with it for about an hour.

Ruso · Post by **Ruso** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:52 am

In fact... you have kind of inspired me to get back to work on the synth engine for it

Thanks! By the way check out the sound samples I posted

Daddylaser · Post by **Daddylaser** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:44 pm

the problem with using a padkontrol is you must bring your laptop on stage with you thus making you look like a fool

what with all that light shing on your face accenting the beardlicking

pulease

Ruso · Post by **Ruso** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:06 pm

What's even worse is this group of shitty rave music artists(eh maybe not even artists) who played a couple of years back.... there were five of them or so.... each one had a lap top and a mouse..... NO controllers of any kind and they were all staring at the screens while the people watched.... weak sauce.