Free Energy.

[RiotNrrd]

So, I wonder what will happen if this technology takes this away. Where will this leave Americas economy?

As I mentioned before, that whole "violating the basic laws of physics" thing is a difficult issue to get around. So, I'm willing to say that I'm 100% certain you don't really need to worry about this new "technology" impacting us much over here.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, and I'll happily eat my words. But I seriously don't think that I am wrong. As they say, "there's no such thing as bad publicity", and I really do think that's all they're shooting for here. The chances of their process actually meeting their claims is zero. Perpetual motion machines (which are essentially what they are describing) exist in the same world as giant rabbits that pass out candy eggs and winged women who exchange small amounts of cash for baby teeth placed under pillows. Fun to imagine, perhaps. That's about it.

[Timo]

So, I wonder what will happen if this technology takes this away. Where will this leave Americas economy?

The realist in many of us says we'll be able to cross that bridge if/when we then come to it. Cart before horse. But, it would be nice to dream.

I hope the time is right and that we have evolved enough to realise that money is not the future of mankind, and that we NEED this technology to survive.

Even if the current system stinks to high hell (which it does), there is a distinct (enormous) difference between needing something and actually being able to fabricate it within the realms of science (of that we know or don't know).

Humans are pretty resourceful, though. If there's a way, then we have at least a small chance in stumbling upon it. Maybe not necessarily now, or in the next 100 years, but somewhere along the line...

My theory of evolution (the secret of life) is that lifeforms (not necessarily humans) will stop at nothing until they have the complete mappings and workings (scientific laws) of the universe - effectively becoming God. Being able to compute the workings of the Universe, however, would probably require all the energy in the Universe to do so, and it'd self implode or something. An ironic paradox. But I digress, and I'm not normally a theorist...

We have a lot to learn, that we don't already know. Our present knowledge is but a 'blip' in the ocean.

We can dream that Steorn [or someone else] cracks free energy, in whatever form that may or may not be (indeed if at all possible). We can dream about the mysteries and workings of dark matter - the stuff we know about but can't yet fathom - and the things we don't yet know about at all. But in the meantime, as an audience, we often have to face cold, hard facts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6283374.stm

Doesn't stop us recollecting ourselves, regrouping, experimenting with different things, trying again, or exploring other avenues, with the goal of pushing our known boundaries of science. Humans are punk like that. I hope Steorn are, too. They obviously have something that's hopefully slightly quirky, that needs investigation by a much wider community (open source?). That's how the envelope of known Science is pushed.

We await their next development. We shouldn't rest our hopes, though, on a company (even though they're Irish ) of whom we don't know anything about, about a technology that we can't speculate about due to the scant info they've given...

...Which renders my post null and void.

Back to the Radias...

[Troy]

...that whole "violating the basic laws of physics" thing is a difficult issue to get around...

This line is almost exactly what one of my favorite quotes says. I think it was in the Washington Post or one of the other big papers in the Eastern US. I can't find it right now, but it was really funny.

The paper said a certain professor was an idiot (my paraphase) because of his views on jet propulsion (I believe). Apparently, he lacked the basic understanding of physics that was doled out in high schools all across the country.

Of course, decades later, they printed a retraction...right after the first moon landing.

I'm not defending the idea this thread is about. Just saying we should keep an open mind. I believe there are still impossible things that will someday be made possible.

Troy

[RiotNrrd]

I'm not defending the idea this thread is about. Just saying we should keep an open mind.

I would be completely happy - ecstatic, almost - to be proven wrong. I'm as in favor of free and limitless energy as the next guy, and I'd love to see it happen. But I won't be holding my breath.

Which reminds me. An earlier post mentioned that they had set up a demonstration to occur in London in July. Well, July is almost done. How'd that turn out (assuming it isn't set for tomorrow)? I haven't seen anything in the news about it, and I'd expect that the accomplished vision of a future without energy restrictions would get some pretty good press...

[Tom_1970]

I haven't seen anything in the news about it

maybe because it was a fiasco....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6283374.stm

[laughing_bear]

I haven't seen anything in the news about it

maybe because it was a fiasco....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6283374.stm

YUP!

I believe that Mr McCarthy is truly convinced of the validity of his invention. It is, in my view, a case of prolonged self deception. - Professor Sir Eric Ash, electrical engineer and former rector of Imperial College London -

[Sharp]

Hi Bear.

You seem to be happy that they didn't have success on the day. I don't understand why ?.
There's no benefit here for anyone to have a laugh at these guys.

I still have no doubts that this is real, not just because of what Storen are saying, but because there are only slightly further along the development line than the other who also almost have a working prototype.

It is inevitable that they will succeed. If not Storen, then someone else.

This is also not the only technology available too. Go to You Tube and type in HHO into the search engine and you will see quite a few videos of a new and fully working engine working on salt water, and outputting 300% efficiency.

Regards.
Sharp.

[Tom_1970]

The 'laugh' or me is that coming to the point they can proof their hot new technology, they fail to do what they claimed (for months) they can do.

They are the ones claiming that they can change the way of live and the laws of physics.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" (Carls Sagan?) and seen in this light you can ask yourself what the benefit is of giving people false hope.


Regards

Tom

[laughing_bear]

It wasn't a "nasty laugh" rather a laugh like you would have about someone standing on a corner in Dublin shouting "The end is near!" I also laughed at the very british way to react to his claim, could not have said it any better, "prolonged self deception"

I did not take this chap for serious for a single second, mainly because during his whole campaign he ignored the scientific fundaments that he claimed to have circumvented.

Yes the Internet is full of such "technologies" that will provide free energy.

I said it before, Cold Fusion is the only viable way if we would put enough efforts into it.

Then again, let's face it, energy=political power in the equation of world politics, and those in power have no interest to make energy a ressource freely available.

This is probably the biggest obstacle towards a freely distributed energy to all.

[Sharp]

Hi Bear.

Sorry, this is one of those text VS facial expressions misunderstandings.
Don't take my comment about “Laughing” anyway serious at all. It's just an expression of something else I was trying to get across.

It's hard to put this into words... so please excuse the bluntness of this next comment.

I feel like you expect these guys or anyone working on this to fail, and that the laws cannot be broken.

Where I have faith that these guys are on the level, and that they do indeed have what they said they have. Remember, they where not supposed to even show the public one of the machines until the scientists currently examining this behind closed doors where finished.

Yet Storen made the move first to jump months ahead of their deadline to show everyone what they had.

Then again, let's face it, energy=political power in the equation of world politics, and those in power have no interest to make energy a resource freely available.

True, but if it's as private company like Storen or someone else that releases this, then the Governments of the world can go swing. They won't hold this back.

Regards.
Sharp.

[laughing_bear]

Then again, let's face it, energy=political power in the equation of world politics, and those in power have no interest to make energy a resource freely available.

True, but if it's as private company like Storen or someone else that releases this, then the Governments of the world can go swing. They won't hold this back.

I am afraid this would not be the case James.

The more realistic scenario I can see is that in case someone would have the key to free energy, he is likely to get killed in an accident or similiar.

You have to take the stakes into consideration. We talk about the biggest business on the planet.

Take only one company for example: ROYAL Dutch Shell, the Anglo-Dutch energy gianthad made another record profit - equivalent 2.2 Million Euro per hour ! and the highest profit reported by a UK firm.

And this is just the tip of the Iceberg!

Independent refiners and marketers earned a 92% profit increase in 2005
compared to 2004. Valero, the largest firm in this group and the largest refiner in the United States, led the way with a 99% increase in profit and earned almost two thirds of the profit of the group as a whole.

In 2005, the oil industry recorded revenues of $1.62 trillion, of which 81% was accounted for by the five major integrated oil companies. Profits for the industry totaled almost $140 billion, 76% of which were earned by the five major integrated oil companies, with the largest company, ExxonMobil, earning over 25% of the total profit

(source: Oil Industry Profit Review 2005)

For that and a bunch of other reasons I mentioned that equation energy=political power. Hence it is not the puppets in governments that "we the people" voted as our representatives <cynical laughter>, it is multinationals that ultimately decide on the faith of governments, whole nations and last not least, planet earth.

I wish it would not be this way, but anyhow, allow me to point you to an excellent read in that whole context:

Noam Chomsky; Understanding Power
ISBN-10: 0099466066
ISBN-13: 978-0099466062

On Chomsky:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

[Sharp]

Yeah, point taken since the inventor of HHO has been locked up in Jail by the American Military and nobody knows why.

Sucks big time.

Regards.
Sharp.

[laughing_bear]

I intend to think.... now that it is clear that we deal with VERY limitted ressources in terms of fossil fuels, "their" methods in securing their interests are even more ruthless than ever before.

Yep, sucks immensly.

Even on a small scale sometimes I could despair facing the insane levels of corruption. I was speaking with a developer, talking about our house plans, and he told me a story where he applied for a great number of planings, had a specialst engineering team from germany in to come up with a state of the art water treatment plan for the estate, only the best of the best, no expense spared.

The chapo is very concious about environment and wanted to get the very best possible.

To make a long story short, he was refused because the water treatment was "too good"! Not kidding!!! They told him of the cough, they could not accept such outstanding standards, this would open pandorras box. They litereally asked him to put in septic tanks, thats all. He refused and never got planing.

Put that in context with ten thousands of people in Galway and other areas who have no clean drinking water, since years now!

Argh

[RiotNrrd]

I feel like you expect these guys or anyone working on this to fail, and that the laws cannot be broken.

To be equally as blunt: yes, I do expect these guys or anyone working on this to fail, and no, I don't think that the laws can be broken.

The history of perpetual motion is one of total and complete failure. I do believe that the principles of the conservation of energy are, in fact, pretty solid, and that any attempt to circumvent them is a fools errand. Energy doesn't just appear out of thin air. It always comes from somewhere, and it always goes somewhere. Perpetual motion machines try to make an end-run around the first part (energy always coming from somewhere), and the universe just plain doesn't work that way.

This is not to say that I do not believe that there are other energy sources that are currently unknown and that we will at some point tap into them. I certainly do believe that there are other sources that we have not discovered yet. Whether that is cold fusion, pulling energy from a parallel universe of high energy into our less-high-energy one, pulling energy from null-space quark interactions, or whatever other science fictioney thing you can think of, at some point it will happen.

BUT... I also believe that when we tap these heretofore unknown energy sources, it will be because we will have found some natural law that allows it, and we will take advantage of that (or those) currently unknown natural law(s). And that implies that the people doing the tapping actually know what the heck they are involved with - that they actually UNDERSTAND the principles that they are working with. We will NOT hear the scientists say things like "we don't really know why it works", which, unfortunately, is exactly what the guy from Steorn was saying, almost word for word. That kind of statement just screams "crackpot". How can someone build something that generates unlimited energy and not know how it works? How did they even create the device in the first place? Trial and error? It is just utterly silly.

New energy sources are certainly possible. Perpetual motion machines based on technology that no one (including the inventor) understands? Sorry. No.

[Portland]

Yeah, point taken since the inventor of HHO has been locked up in Jail by the American Military and nobody knows why.

Really? Do you have a source? That is truly remarkable...