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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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 Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| arne v wrote: | Hi,
Are you using alot of string resonance?
I have also experienced alot of "voice stealing" when string resonance is turned on...just a thought 
btw i have the 1 generation of Kronos |
i have ' some ' voice stealing.
but some 'voice stealing ' is normal.
thats not the same as ' cutoff notes'
some have cutoff notes due to custom combis. but if u have a factory combi that has obvious cutoff, report that particular combi here
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Kronos 88. MODX8
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quariyune
Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| arne v wrote: | Hi,
Are you using alot of string resonance?
I have also experienced alot of "voice stealing" when string resonance is turned on...just a thought
btw i have the 1 generation of Kronos |
Hi, I'm using the very first instrument of the very first set to test out the voice stealing (I think it's the kronos german piano). So I don't think it's string resonance.
But just to be sure, where/how would you turn off string resonance? |
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quariyune
Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Also I want to add that sometimes when it starts happening the Kronos menus become less responsive. The keys work fine and notes are extremely responsive, but if I want to switch from something like SEQ to PROG, I click it and nothing happens for multiple seconds, then it switches. That seems like a bottlenecking problem? But I'm not running anything else with the kronos.
EDIT: here is a clip that I finally managed to figure out how to record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhSxYrVk600&feature=youtu.be
When it cuts off there's sometimes also a static-like noise. It doesn't happen that much near the beginning, but near the end it's extremely easy to tell when I'm playing the 5 of a 1-4-5-1 progression. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| quariyune wrote: | Also I want to add that sometimes when it starts happening the Kronos menus become less responsive. The keys work fine and notes are extremely responsive, but if I want to switch from something like SEQ to PROG, I click it and nothing happens for multiple seconds, then it switches. That seems like a bottlenecking problem? But I'm not running anything else with the kronos.
EDIT: here is a clip that I finally managed to figure out how to record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhSxYrVk600&feature=youtu.be
When it cuts off there's sometimes also a static-like noise. It doesn't happen that much near the beginning, but near the end it's extremely easy to tell when I'm playing the 5 of a 1-4-5-1 progression. |
Nice playing. Are u heavy handed ?
If there is a certain area of the 88 where notes cut out, your keybed might need a felt or contact replacement . I am only guessing it's your keybed.
U should be able to send your YouTube to Korg support for better diagnosis
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quariyune
Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | quariyune wrote: | Also I want to add that sometimes when it starts happening the Kronos menus become less responsive. The keys work fine and notes are extremely responsive, but if I want to switch from something like SEQ to PROG, I click it and nothing happens for multiple seconds, then it switches. That seems like a bottlenecking problem? But I'm not running anything else with the kronos.
EDIT: here is a clip that I finally managed to figure out how to record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhSxYrVk600&feature=youtu.be
When it cuts off there's sometimes also a static-like noise. It doesn't happen that much near the beginning, but near the end it's extremely easy to tell when I'm playing the 5 of a 1-4-5-1 progression. |
Nice playing. Are u heavy handed ?
If there is a certain area of the 88 where notes cut out, your keybed might need a felt or contact replacement . I am only guessing it's your keybed.
U should be able to send your YouTube to Korg support for better diagnosis |
Ahh not too sure what you mean by heavy handed, but I was mainly playing random stuff to try and get the problem to show (since it seems to be random). It's not necessarily certain ranges on the keyboard that are cutting off, I could be playing one note and it works perfectly, but then right after it experiences the cutoff (Like the 5 chord in the 1-4-5-1 progression near the end). It also doesn't have to be that many voices, I could be playing single note lines at a very slow pace and still experience the cuttoff.
EDIT: Just doing more testing and stuff, I've noticed a trend where the effects cpu will drop really low. If it's at around 20-30% then the problem won't trigger, but it will drop randomly to 8-10% and that's when the voicestealing happens. I don't overload the kronos with anything cpu heavy so I'm not sure where it's allocating all those resources? |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| quariyune wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | quariyune wrote: | Also I want to add that sometimes when it starts happening the Kronos menus become less responsive. The keys work fine and notes are extremely responsive, but if I want to switch from something like SEQ to PROG, I click it and nothing happens for multiple seconds, then it switches. That seems like a bottlenecking problem? But I'm not running anything else with the kronos.
EDIT: here is a clip that I finally managed to figure out how to record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhSxYrVk600&feature=youtu.be
When it cuts off there's sometimes also a static-like noise. It doesn't happen that much near the beginning, but near the end it's extremely easy to tell when I'm playing the 5 of a 1-4-5-1 progression. |
Nice playing. Are u heavy handed ?
If there is a certain area of the 88 where notes cut out, your keybed might need a felt or contact replacement . I am only guessing it's your keybed.
U should be able to send your YouTube to Korg support for better diagnosis |
Ahh not too sure what you mean by heavy handed, but I was mainly playing random stuff to try and get the problem to show (since it seems to be random). It's not necessarily certain ranges on the keyboard that are cutting off, I could be playing one note and it works perfectly, but then right after it experiences the cutoff (Like the 5 chord in the 1-4-5-1 progression near the end). It also doesn't have to be that many voices, I could be playing single note lines at a very slow pace and still experience the cuttoff.
EDIT: Just doing more testing and stuff, I've noticed a trend where the effects cpu will drop really low. If it's at around 20-30% then the problem won't trigger, but it will drop randomly to 8-10% and that's when the voicestealing happens. I don't overload the kronos with anything cpu heavy so I'm not sure where it's allocating all those resources? |
just for the heck of it, ' mute ' the drum track on your Piano Program.
you will see a Drum track tab. go to ' trigger' , set latch to off. go to drum track parameters, set to ' mute'.
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quariyune
Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | -snip for space- |
Alright after I did that, I performed a brief test for a couple minutes. During it, there was no voicestealing or cutoffs no matter what I played (Great news and thanks for the suggestion!). I haven't given it a long test yet so I can't say the problem is gone completely, but it seemed to have worked for now!
I'll update in a moment after testing it out for a lot longer. Does the drum track usually cause this sort of problem for Kronos?
EDIT: Nvm spoke too soon, the voicestealing and cutoffs are still there 
I also want to add that the voices cpu is also incredibly low when this problem starts happening. And as soon as it cuts off, the voices cpu drops to 0%
I've linked this thread and my video to a support email so I'm hoping I hear back from them soon too. This is just such a strange issue since it was working perfectly fine, and then one day it just started doing this voicestealing.
Last edited by quariyune on Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| quariyune wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | -snip for space- |
Alright after I did that, I performed a brief test for a couple minutes. During it, there was no voicestealing or cutoffs no matter what I played (Great news and thanks for the suggestion!). I haven't given it a long test yet so I can't say the problem is gone completely, but it seemed to have worked for now!
I'll update in a moment after testing it out for a lot longer. Does the drum track usually cause this sort of problem for Kronos?
EDIT: Nvm spoke too soon, the voicestealing and cutoffs are still there
I've linked this thread and my video to a support email so I'm hoping I hear back from them soon too. This is just such a strange issue since it was working perfectly fine, and then one day it just started doing this voicestealing. |
removing drum track was a workaround to make sure your piano had access to all polyphony. It was just an idea.
yeah, you need to get service or support to better assess this. My 2 cents is that your keybed needs some attention. another simple idea is to remove the bottom cover ( carefully, there are 20 screws. ), stabilize the keybed with cardboard inserts, and see if you can view the key bed for any thing unusual inside. Its a shame this is going on but it has to be fixable.
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Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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quariyune
Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | quariyune wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | -snip for space- |
Alright after I did that, I performed a brief test for a couple minutes. During it, there was no voicestealing or cutoffs no matter what I played (Great news and thanks for the suggestion!). I haven't given it a long test yet so I can't say the problem is gone completely, but it seemed to have worked for now!
I'll update in a moment after testing it out for a lot longer. Does the drum track usually cause this sort of problem for Kronos?
EDIT: Nvm spoke too soon, the voicestealing and cutoffs are still there
I've linked this thread and my video to a support email so I'm hoping I hear back from them soon too. This is just such a strange issue since it was working perfectly fine, and then one day it just started doing this voicestealing. |
removing drum track was a workaround to make sure your piano had access to all polyphony. It was just an idea.
yeah, you need to get service or support to better assess this. My 2 cents is that your keybed needs some attention. another simple idea is to remove the bottom cover ( carefully, there are 20 screws. ), stabilize the keybed with cardboard inserts, and see if you can view the key bed for any thing unusual inside. Its a shame this is going on but it has to be fixable. |
Yea I hope support can help with this. I don't really want to open it since if anything bad happens and I can't reassemble it, I won't be able to use it at all for a few months when I get to return home from University. I guess I'll just have to deal with it for now, but I don't think I'll be able to use it for recording anymore :/ |
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wildebeest
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 24
Location: Surrey UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Hi all. Did this ever get resolved? It started happening to me last night during rehearsal for a gig in a few weeks. I have a Kronos X 61. 2 symptoms are exactly the same as 'quariune's'.
One of the progs in the combi I was playing would only hold a note for about 1 second before cutting off. Other progs were not affected to start with. Then randomly, other progs would cut off any their sustain. This was evident in any Combi and then I found, in any Prog. The 2nd symptom was that saving very minor changes to a Combi would take an age to commit. Both new issues for me and I note both are noted in this query from 2015.
A lot of water under the faulty bridge since then, so any tips would be very welcome.......not long to turn this around before my gig.
Thanks |
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voip
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 3777
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Two things that are worth checking. Re-seating the RAM and possible SSD replacement. Re-seating the RAM is a relatively easy thing to do, and might solve the problem. Just observe anti--static precaustions when doing so. The slow Combi saving speed tends to point to SSD wear being a more likely cause. This phenomenon is not unique to the Kronos. Anything with an SSD can suffer from this over time. The Kronos OS doesn't give the user any way to access the wear level statistic. I guess itjust wasn't considered necessary. A third possibility is a power supply going out of spec, though that would tend to cause system failure messages popping up.
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wildebeest
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 24
Location: Surrey UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks voip. I have had the back off previously when I was getting Systems failure msgs during boot up. Re-seating one of the components sorted that at the time. These are a different set of faults but it's worth a go. I've just fired up the Kronos this morning and the cut-off issue was immediately evident on the Kronos Grand default start prog. When I changed Prog it cleared but soon came back again accompanied by screen freezing for 30 seconds when trying to change to a different Prog or Combi. This then cleared and all was well for a another minute or so before the the sound cut off once more. Back coming off as a starter for ten........ |
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wocongming
Full Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2020
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:44 pm Post subject: this is what i think you should do |
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| quariyune wrote: | Well I've tried updating it to 3.0 and although the first day it went fine (Though that might just be luck now that I think about it), again it still has a voicestealing problem.
I don't think overloading karma has anything to do with it because it voicesteals even if I just play 1 note, without any karma.
I don't think dust is the issue since there's virtually no dust that has settled on the keyboard and none when I tried to blow between the keys.
I also don't think it has to do with they keys sending multiple signals to the kronos since sometimes certain notes work properly and other times they get voice-stolen (even if I'm just pressing that one key without any other extra stuff). The time between when I press the key and when the sound gets voice-stolen also seems to be pretty consistent no matter which key it is.
I honestly think that I may have something turned on that should be turned off or whatnot on my kronos, but I've done a factory reset and an OS upgrade so I've got no idea anymore.
If it could help get more insight into this, "Audio" light from the control assign column is lit, as well as M, 1-8, all the mix play/mute, the first mix select, and channel strip.
The reason why I don't really want to contact Kronos support is not necessarily because most customer supports I've spoken with are unhelpful and don't really know what they're talking about (Although it makes me hesitate more), but that I don't have access to a phone within my suite so I'd have to use the one in the middle of the campus cafeteria which makes it nearly impossible to diagonise my kronos. I'd also likely not be able to afford any sort of repair / checks that they'll "recommend". |
Make sure your software is updated to the latest 3.1.4, and update your hardware/firmware! i think these 2 things updated will solve your problems IMO. |
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wildebeest
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 24
Location: Surrey UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmmmm I'm up to date with versions.......funnily enough it's been fine for the last hour since I did another restart. its fine when noodling at home of course but anxious making prior to a gig. |
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wildebeest
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 24
Location: Surrey UK
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Just to complete the loop on this issue. My note cut-off issue became the dreaded black screen 'The system has developed a fault (para-phrase) please wait 10 seconds and reboot'.
Since taking the back off, unplugging and re-plugging in the RAM, no further issues today......fingers crossed. This is a magic fix and the third time in 2 years for me but out of interest, does anyone know what is actually going on, such that RAM needs to be re seated? |
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