Korg Forums

[karmathanever]

Hi all

Firstly this is NOT a whinge from ME at all but I would genuinely love to hear your comments.
Also I have NOT posted this to irritate anyone.

Background first:-
A fine musician colleague of mine who has and plays Nords, Hammonds (keyboards), and Rolands plus has a very very high class recording studio with some of the most expensive gear I have seen and has years of experience with playing, recording and sound.

Well, he was interested to hear my Kronos (had not heard one before) so I took it to his studio and he hooked it up (audio-wise).
He loved the multiple Kronos engines and the whole concept of KARMA plus the quality of samples/multi-samples etc..etc.. BUT said that the Kronos was completely let down by its extremely shoddy and poor quality digital-to-audio at output - I personally could not "hear" it but do not have that level of experience in that area.

OK, again, I have no problem with my Kronos at all but I was shocked by his comment and very strong views.

Any thoughts/comment?
Does anyone relate to this?
Would Kronos X and Kronos 2 have any different hardware relating to this?

I'm not paranoid, just seriously interested.

Thanks

Pete
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------

[jeremykeys]

He has way better ears than I do! Probably the D to A converters aren't as good as they could be in this day and age but I can't hear anything at all that would tell me what he says. My Kronos; a first generation one; spends a lot of time in studios but no body has ever said anything like that.

It may be true but I simply don't know. I think it sounds amazing. I also think comparing various keyboards that come from this era is silly. They all sound amazing, amazing but different.
_________________
If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats!

[Thoraldus]

Many years ago I did a test with some audio engineers where I played back some digitally sampled audio (orchestral). I told them that one sample was rendered by a 1-bit sigma-delta system and the other by a 24-bit R-2R ... to a person they all said they preferred the 24 bit DAC with varying reasons; dynamics, noise, purity, etc. At the time the 1-bit system cost less than $10 to implement and the 24 bit system clocked in at around $300. Imagine their consternation when I advised them that both samples they listened to were rendered on the 1-bit system. They honestly thought they heard a difference between the two "different" systems. Of course it was their prejudice that got in the way of reality.
_________________
”It’s easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself.”

Johann Sebastian Bach

----------------------------------------------
Rick Stirling - Retired Electrical Engineer - Erstwhile Photographer
Korg Kronos2, Casio MZ-X500, PA600, AKAI MPD32, M-Audio Oxygen 25, ZOOM H6, Cakewalk Sonar

[karmathanever]

Thanks Jeremy/Rick

So my ageing ears are still OK because I could not hear a problem.
Thanks for bearing with my questions - I have great respect for my colleague's knowledge and experience but failed to really hear a "problem" or quality drop. He does admit that he is fanatical about "sound".

Thanks again guys

Pete
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------

[Derek Cook]

Dumb question, but not fully obvious form the post, did you ask your friend to explain the difference that he heard, such that perhaps you could have heard it as well?

Was it just a volume thing? I do find that the Kronos is a lot quieter than my EX5 in terms of output level on some engines - seems to be a little inconsistent. And volume can have a big impact on how you perceive a sound.
_________________
Derek Cook - Java Developer



Follow kronos.factory development and submit ideas over at the kronos.factory Trello Board

My Echoes Music Website
My Carreg Ddu Music Website

[SanderXpander]

If anything, the Kronos sounds cleaner than my Nords and Hammonds ever did. I don't have a lot of hand-on experience with high-end Rolands. In general I find them to sound a bit muffled but that could easily be the samples they use.

I think this is BS. Any chance he was running in mono?

[Synthee]

I've tested a lot of synthesizers and my Kronos 88 I use to have had superb sound-quality.
My latest keyboard was an Yamaha MOXF8 and that one was clearly more muffled in the sound than Kronos. That is why I sold it and ordered a Kronos 2.

[80salife]

My experience is similar...

I've never heard such a good instrument like the Kronos under Headphone Conditions Clear and powerful.

But in Monitoring with my samsons, its ridiculous KRONOS loose all his power and get a bit muffy and doesn't sounding better than my other synths...

I was so disappointed... Still... Still

Still I was in a music-shop and played a KRONOS live with a BOSE L1, its blowed me away...

Since that time I know, you need a modern equipment to get a good sound from KRONOS otherwise he sounds not better as my good old toys!!!
_________________
Love and peace to everyone

Live:
Korg KRONOS, Triton Extreme 88, Korg Trinity V3, Roland Integra, Yamaha TG 500, Korg DS-8, CME UF 88, MOTU Timepiece II,
Studio:
Samson Resolve, Rhode NT1, Ultimate Stands, Korg Legacy Collection,KARMA KRONOS, Extreme Sample Converter, Native Kontakt Piano Collection, OPX Pro II,Native Instruments GuitarPlugs, Wave Gold

[media-igor]

I'm on my studio a lot of time using the analog output of the OASYS and KRONOS to a mixer (Digital Roland M-400). Recently added to console digital AES / EBU input and began to use the digital output SPDIF KRONOS. The sound is better.
Also a lot of time before I used to connect KRONOS OASYS and analog inputs and outputs, then switched to optical communications. The sound quality is only improved.
Your friend sure as their AD-AH converters?

[jeremykeys]

I think the best way to sum it all up is to simply quote esteemed producer Joe Meeks who said, "If it sounds good, then it is good!".
_________________
If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats!

[JimH]

I'm not sure how you can identify converters as a weakness by listening only to the Kronos by itself. For comparison you would need to run the digital output into some other converter so it was the only variable that was different, then do multiple blind listening tests. Only then would I believe it. Personally I think the Kronos happens to be pretty clean and detailed in the high end compared to all my other keyboards, but then my ears are getting old.
_________________
Korg Kronos 61, DSS-1, EX-8000
VAX77; John Bowen Solaris; Yamaha S90ES, TX81Z; Hammond XK3c; Kurzweil K2000S, PC88mx; Minimoog (orig)

[timbukktwo]

Genuinely, I'd really like much more information as to how he came to his conclusions. Not much pops up with information regarding the Burr Brown PCM 1793 DAC that's in the Oasys/Kronos outside of the spec sheet. It's been used in some fairly higher-end products. Decent specs; linear. However, it's more about the design in which it's used and how it's implemented within a system. Korg, imo, has done quite well here. It's also the combined synergy in which how everything comes together in all aspects. Korg, imo, has covered it's bases with the Oasys/Kronos in coming with a sonic result that works best for the companies intents and purposes. I really like what I hear and that's the whole point, anyway, regardless in what specs and measurements may otherwise on paper say! The sound would change if a different dac, etc. would be used. Could the sound be improved by such? Perhaps. I still like what I hear! I'm not sure how much better-? it COULD be. On its own already, the Oasys/Kronos sound is HUGE, warm (with enough detail) and three dimensional. To me, it sounds absolutely fantastic! What more should I expect?- T.

[geoelectro]

Today the band leader in my church said we may start using a laptop for our backing tracks instead of my Kronos. Apparently, last week with a sub leader who brought a Mac book to run the backing tracks, the sound man made a comment to our regular leader that the backig tracks sounded better last week!?! I only started running them because the laptop we had then was sent to another area of the church. I told them I could do it from the keyboard. This seemed like an unusual comment to be made. Especially in view that these backing tracks are MP3's.

I told them there is no way a laptop sounds any better than the Kronos. Still, if they make that change then less for me to worry about.

Geo
_________________
Kronos 61 : 3GB RAM 120GB 2nd Drv.
Kronos 2 61
Synthesizers.com Custom Modular
N.I. Komplete 11, Omnisphere 2, VB-3.
HP i7 8GB Win 10
Yamaha P-80 Weighted Keyboard. NanoPad2

[Bachus]

[SanderXpander]

There are very few live sound guys I trust with something as subtle as this.