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Synthee
Senior Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2013
Posts: 298
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| slowtrain wrote: | The new case seems to have more ventilation, and I thought someone recently posted a SSD that doesn't need a fan. Maybe the new one is quieter. I don't hear my fan either, and I haven't replaced it with a quieter one. As for the boot time, it makes no difference to me. It seems like a live gig with no UPS would be the only time it would matter. I can't imagine changing keyboards for such minor issues.
However, I don't use Cubase. I browsed it the other day, and they specifically mentioned Yamaha integration, but didn't mention any other manufacturers. I guess that could make a big difference if you're already invested in Cubase. |
Yes, all those little holes on the back for ventilation seems promising, in the old Kronos the air vent out through the buttons opening on the control-surface. Maybe this alone have made an improvement in noise. It will be interesting to check it out when it comes to the store.
I think I saw that someone wrote that they had seen some settings for fan in the menues also? |
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alanjpearson
Senior Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | Synthee wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | Synthee wrote: | I love Kronos but the two things that made me sell my Kronos 88 was the noise from the fan and the long upstart time.
If those two are corrected in the new Kronos I will buy one.
The upstart time seems to be the same, according to the released video were the speaker voice say: "The upstart time is one and a half minute, just like a computer"
When had computers an upstart time for 1,5 minute? 1981?
The noise from the fan I still don't know if its taken care of on Kronos 2? |
oh c'mon. Maybe you are not up to date
Owners have been installing higher quality and more quiet fans for years.
And on the other hand, a slight fan hum does not bother many ( thousands of owners).
You must know this. Kronos has 9 synth engines and gigabit pianos to load.
Tons of data. your DAW would take at least that long of it loaded a similar data load.
comparing that to 1981 is a red herring
True, it appears the processor/spec may not have changed. but if you can find a more perfect keyboard workstation, let us know. |
Yes I know, I switched the fan myself to a more quiet one, but even with that one I couldn't stand hearing that hissing noise from the fan all the time when I was sitting down to make music.
Maybe Im more sensitive than thousand of other people? 
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without a doubt, there is plenty of variation with being distracted or certain noise. Some keyboardists want no noise because the type of fan noise is unwelcome when playing. It can be an unwelcome distraction.
For others, or just me , once I start jamming, my music noise drowns out all ambient noise and I sink into the enjoyment of playing the Kronos.
my wife has the most sensitive/best ears and does not even notice the Kronos fan noise. I have a very live room- wood floors, nothing to absorb sound acoustically.
If the Mox makes you happy, thats cool. I doubt that V3 will solve your requirements, from what I read |
Lots of red herrings here.
I accept some may hear the fan but I never have and have quite an old machine. The noise from my keyboard amp and PC fan would drown it out.
The start up time is comparable to a PC now, not in 1981.
And anyway what is it that you are in such a hurry for?
Plus why do you need a more powerful processor?
I've never seen any delay between hitting a button and something happening.
Upload/download speeds are usually a function of the transfer method rather than the processor in the case of workstations.
For me the benefits FAR outweigh the drawbacks - and for me at least one drawback will be fixed with the new zoom feature.
As far as reliability is concerned, I had a PSU failure at the outset but it has been 100% ever since - long live Kronos!
_________________
Roland XP30, Hammond XK3C, SKX;Korg Kronos 73,
GEM Promega 2, Roland AX Synth, Roland Fantom FA76, Roland Fantom XR, Verghese ProSoloist Rack, ARP Prosoloist, Mellotron 4000D, Yamaha CP70B, Yamaha A4000, EMU Proteus Custom
Why Aye Man!
www.losendos.co.uk |
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alanjpearson
Senior Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Lots of red herrings here.
I accept some may hear the fan but I never have and have quite an old machine. The noise from my keyboard amp and PC fan would drown it out.
The start up time is comparable to a PC now, not in 1981.
And anyway what is it that you are in such a hurry for?
Plus why do you need a more powerful processor?
I've never seen any delay between hitting a button and something happening.
Upload/download speeds are usually a function of the transfer method rather than the processor in the case of workstations.
For me the benefits FAR outweigh the drawbacks - and for me at least one drawback will be fixed with the new zoom feature.
As far as reliability is concerned, I had a PSU failure at the outset but it has been 100% ever since - long live Kronos!
_________________
Roland XP30, Hammond XK3C, SKX;Korg Kronos 73,
GEM Promega 2, Roland AX Synth, Roland Fantom FA76, Roland Fantom XR, Verghese ProSoloist Rack, ARP Prosoloist, Mellotron 4000D, Yamaha CP70B, Yamaha A4000, EMU Proteus Custom
Why Aye Man!
www.losendos.co.uk
Last edited by alanjpearson on Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:36 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Matthomas
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 43
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| slowtrain wrote: | I don't hear my fan either, and I haven't replaced it with a quieter one. As for the boot time, it makes no difference to me.
... specifically mentioned Yamaha integration, but didn't mention any other manufacturers. I guess that could make a big difference if you're already invested in Cubase. |
Kronos fan is not apparent when you play music and there is sound.
Cubase integration with any keyboard is not complex, or better with
Yamaha. I used Spdif optical to PC from Kronos with Korg NanoControl2 to mix Cubase tracks. No problem!
If you have specific needs that are better addressed with another keyboard, that's great you found what works for you, but it works well for Protools or Cubase or Logic already as studio device. Peter Gabriel has two....
Mat (Kronos is the best part of the studio i work with)
_________________
KronosX 88, Korg 01R/W, Korg NanoPad2, NanoKontrol2, iPad2 and Akai Synthstation49, EMU5000, JV-1080
https://soundcloud.com/jambodhi
Music created with Korg Kronos - Soundtracks, Electronica, Sci Fi Film Score.... |
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Synthee
Senior Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2013
Posts: 298
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Matthomas wrote: | | slowtrain wrote: | I don't hear my fan either, and I haven't replaced it with a quieter one. As for the boot time, it makes no difference to me.
... specifically mentioned Yamaha integration, but didn't mention any other manufacturers. I guess that could make a big difference if you're already invested in Cubase. |
Kronos fan is not apparent when you play music and there is sound.
Cubase integration with any keyboard is not complex, or better with
Yamaha. I used Spdif optical to PC from Kronos with Korg NanoControl2 to mix Cubase tracks. No problem!
If you have specific needs that are better addressed with another keyboard, that's great you found what works for you, but it works well for Protools or Cubase or Logic already as studio device. Peter Gabriel has two....
Mat (Kronos is the best part of the studio i work with) |
Kronos fan-noise is apparent when you play Piano in ordinary level at home.
Cubase integration are much better with Yamaha. You got ASIO drivers for starters, incredible that Kronos don't have it, and then all the sounds from Yamaha MOXF8 goes automatically in to mixdown in Cubase via USB.
I really hope that Korg have fixed those things on new Kronos, because they are important. |
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Derek Cook
Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 1279
Location: Wales, UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Synthee wrote: | | Matthomas wrote: | | slowtrain wrote: | I don't hear my fan either, and I haven't replaced it with a quieter one. As for the boot time, it makes no difference to me.
... specifically mentioned Yamaha integration, but didn't mention any other manufacturers. I guess that could make a big difference if you're already invested in Cubase. |
Kronos fan is not apparent when you play music and there is sound.
Cubase integration with any keyboard is not complex, or better with
Yamaha. I used Spdif optical to PC from Kronos with Korg NanoControl2 to mix Cubase tracks. No problem!
If you have specific needs that are better addressed with another keyboard, that's great you found what works for you, but it works well for Protools or Cubase or Logic already as studio device. Peter Gabriel has two....
Mat (Kronos is the best part of the studio i work with) |
Kronos fan-noise is apparent when you play Piano in ordinary level at home.
Cubase integration are much better with Yamaha. You got ASIO drivers for starters, incredible that Kronos don't have it, and then all the sounds from Yamaha MOXF8 goes automatically in to mixdown in Cubase via USB.
I really hope that Korg have fixed those things on new Kronos, because they are important. |
It probably helps that Steinberg are owned by Yamaha and are probably designing for each other from the outset to give the combination a competitive edge
That said, better Kronos DAW integration would be nice in this day an age.
_________________
Derek Cook - Java Developer
Follow kronos.factory development and submit ideas over at the kronos.factory Trello Board
My Echoes Music Website
My Carreg Ddu Music Website |
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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I would also like better integration but it doesn't involve ASIO drivers. The Kronos already has class compliant WDM drivers which offer the exact same low latency support as ASIO drivers. Rather, I would love to see softsynth like integration a la Virus TI. As for the MOX, are we talking a MOX or Motif? I find the comparison Motif/Kronos a stretch but MOX/Kronos is laughable as far as features and sound quality goes. VST integration or not, I would rather play a part three or four timee live, no midi, on the Kronos, than use a MOX with the best softsynth integration in the world. |
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Purusha
Full Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 167
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Virus Ti - style integration would be great, but I'd be amazed if we saw it in this generation of Korg workstations.
Mind you, even Access haven't got it completely right with their VSTi editor.
People have been asking, since it landed, for a stand-alone editor - for those who want to use it as a MIDI driven synth.
No dice. |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| lonelagranger wrote: | | Also it's processor is very outdated and underpowered. I love my Kronos X but it is a PITA to wait for it to start up. Korg could have beefed up the processor but they chose not to. |
Startup time is primarily due to loading samples - not related to the processor.
Re underpowered: offhand, I can't think of another hardware synth that can play 400 voices at once, as the SGX-1 does. If you know of one, I'd be interested to hear about it!
- Dan
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| SanderXpander wrote: | | I would also like better integration but it doesn't involve ASIO drivers. The Kronos already has class compliant WDM drivers which offer the exact same low latency support as ASIO drivers. Rather, I would love to see softsynth like integration a la Virus TI. As for the MOX, are we talking a MOX or Motif? I find the comparison Motif/Kronos a stretch but MOX/Kronos is laughable as far as features and sound quality goes. VST integration or not, I would rather play a part three or four timee live, no midi, on the Kronos, than use a MOX with the best softsynth integration in the world. |
SanderXpander, if you found a way to use Kronos WDM drivers within Cubase on Windows systems, please let me know. I never saw a Kronos WDM entry among the available drivers.
The only available workaround so far seems to be Asio4all, which uses up a lot of CPU power, the bigger your project is, and has other issues depending on project and system context. All professionals I ask tell me that Asio has been and continues to be the reference solution for all professional soundcard use in Windows.
I know of not a single one among all the soundcards offered for Windows systems (not even the cheaper ones), which would not offer Asio drivers. It's just ridiculous IMHO not to offer them for a soundcard solution in Windows, and even embedded soundcards like the Access Virus TI do of course offer Asio drivers.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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EvilDragon
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1992
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| danatkorg wrote: | | Startup time is primarily due to loading samples - not related to the processor. |
...but definitely related to SATA bus transfer speed, right? Those SSDs should easily be able to have random read transfer rate of over 200 MB/s, which should load 2 GB of samples in 10 seconds or less. Except something seems to limit the SSDs to attain this peak performance, so this tells me that SATA2 or SATA3 is not used at all in Kronos. Which is a shame. |
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qayqaywsx
Junior Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Some of the libraries have to be decrypted, maybe thats one of the reasons of strart up time.
Anyway after 2 minutes you've got one of the best (electronic keyboard -)instruments in the world direct under your fingers.
I think it is worth to wait for that ! |
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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | | SanderXpander wrote: | | I would also like better integration but it doesn't involve ASIO drivers. The Kronos already has class compliant WDM drivers which offer the exact same low latency support as ASIO drivers. Rather, I would love to see softsynth like integration a la Virus TI. As for the MOX, are we talking a MOX or Motif? I find the comparison Motif/Kronos a stretch but MOX/Kronos is laughable as far as features and sound quality goes. VST integration or not, I would rather play a part three or four timee live, no midi, on the Kronos, than use a MOX with the best softsynth integration in the world. |
SanderXpander, if you found a way to use Kronos WDM drivers within Cubase on Windows systems, please let me know. I never saw a Kronos WDM entry among the available drivers.
The only available workaround so far seems to be Asio4all, which uses up a lot of CPU power, the bigger your project is, and has other issues depending on project and system context. All professionals I ask tell me that Asio has been and continues to be the reference solution for all professional soundcard use in Windows.
I know of not a single one among all the soundcards offered for Windows systems (not even the cheaper ones), which would not offer Asio drivers. It's just ridiculous IMHO not to offer them for a soundcard solution in Windows, and even embedded soundcards like the Access Virus TI do of course offer Asio drivers. |
I don't know about Cubase but Sonar does this just fine. WDM is a Microsoft/Windows standard and ASIO4ALL is nothing but a WDM wrapper. Seems weird that Cubase wouldn't support it. Still I think you'd agree the Virus TI style integration would be preferable to standard ASIO considering you can only use one ASIO driver at a time in a given host. |
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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In fact the Kronos soundcard problem is no real issue to me most of the time.
I have not used the TI Asio driver as main driver for recording in Cubase either, simply because a soundcard with several inputs and outputs for my other keyboards and sound modules is much more useful to me, than direct soundcard access to the Virus. It was fine for traveling just with a Virus and a notebook though.
Same with the Kronos: I would never use the Kronos soundcard as replacement for my Focusrite soundcard, which gives me immediate access to all my instruments/microphone(s) for recording. It's as above with the Virus: when traveling with just the Kronos and a notebook, then an Asio driver would be first choice in Cubase, followed by well working WDM drivers.
So what probably would be much more helpful than Asio drivers would be a 64bit editor working like a VSTi (that would include automation) within Cubase, and it should be an editor/VSTi really using PC possibilities and bigger screen, and not just being a mirror of the Kronos UI. On the other hand: even with the much less complex TI that did not work flawlessly (just mostly flawlessly), so that's probably not easy to achieve with a Kronos. In ten years from now, it will probably be easy due to better hard- and software solutions.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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slowtrain
Full Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 214
Location: SE Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | In fact the Kronos soundcard problem is no real issue to me most of the time.
I have not used the TI Asio driver as main driver for recording in Cubase either, simply because a soundcard with several inputs and outputs for my other keyboards and sound modules is much more useful to me, than direct soundcard access to the Virus. It was fine for traveling just with a Virus and a notebook though.
Same with the Kronos: I would never use the Kronos soundcard as replacement for my Focusrite soundcard, which gives me immediate access to all my instruments/microphone(s) for recording. It's as above with the Virus: when traveling with just the Kronos and a notebook, then an Asio driver would be first choice in Cubase, followed by well working WDM drivers.
So what probably would be much more helpful than Asio drivers would be a 64bit editor working like a VSTi (that would include automation) within Cubase, and it should be an editor/VSTi really using PC possibilities and bigger screen, and not just being a mirror of the Kronos UI. On the other hand: even with the much less complex TI that did not work flawlessly (just mostly flawlessly), so that's probably not easy to achieve with a Kronos. In ten years from now, it will probably be easy due to better hard- and software solutions. |
You can upgrade the editor at soundquest to their pro version which lets tou use the Kronos as a VSTi in 64 bit DAWs, but it's $250. I contacted them on their forum, and got this reply. I'm hoping a 64 bit editor will be part of the OS 3 upgrade, but I'm not holding my breath.
"As a Kronos owner, you do qualify for special upgrade pricing. You will see the upgrade options here:
https://www.squest.com/Forms/Upgrade.html
You will need to enter your Kronos serial number as the upgrade serial number on the order form."
I still think Korg should upgrade the editor for this functionality, since 64 bit DAWs are the norm now, and the Kronos is still being sold as Korg's flagship workstation.
_________________
Jim
Kronos 2 73, Hammond M3 chopper, Cubase 8.5 Pro |
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