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Olivander12
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Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 347
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 Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| robosardine wrote: | | Sounds like that is what it is then. Something unique to this new electribe that will remember your playing actions for later replay- but not midi- because you can't sync it- but you will still need a free track to play along with it. It's an innovation- which is why it is called something we have never heard of? |
It probably generates a constant data stream which records everything happening between the user interface and the output. So it is like a robot doing the knobs movement and pattern changes for you. This recorded data is then later replayed – the button movements, settings, etc. – are replayed and it generates the audio. So it bascially emulates the things your hands are doing. If you leave one or more parts unused, those parts remain free and you can play them while replaying the event recorder data, because that does need more memory or more capacity. |
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Re-Member
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Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 657
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Olivander12 wrote: | | The problem is not the midi data, the problem is that if the event recorder saves midi data which is then rendered in real time, there must be an electribe inside of an electribe, because one has to render the original pattern while the other engine renders the event recorder data. |
You wouldn't need "an electribe inside of an electribe,"all you need is a sequencer on top of another sequencer, which is exactly what this feature is. How do you think "Song Mode" works on the original Grooveboxes and Electribes? It's the same exact principle: One sequencer controls the Pattern information, then an additional "Song" sequencer is used for switching patterns, mute functions, etc. Both operate on MIDI and you can still play sounds on the synth engine manually as the sequencers trigger events and pattern information back for you automatically.
You keep saying it needs to render MIDI... MIDI is not audio, it is control data. You can stack together multiple streams of MIDI information all within the same channel to control the same device. It's no different than using two entirely different remote controls both programmed to control the same television at the same time.
_________________
Roland Juno-60, SH-101, TR-606, MC-505, Casio CZ-101, Yamaha DX100, DX11, Kawai R-50e // Korg R3, microSTATION, Monotribe, MS-20 Mini, SQ-1, minilogue, electribe sampler, Volca series: Bass, Keys, Beats, Sample, FM, Kick, Moog Theremin |
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Olivander12
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Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 347
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Re-Member wrote: |
You keep saying it needs to render MIDI... MIDI is not audio, it is control data. You can stack together multiple streams of MIDI information all within the same channel to control the same device. It's no different than using two entirely different remote controls both programmed to control the same television at the same time. |
i know that and I never said something about rendering midi. The problem is, that in the video above the guy seems to play something on top of the event recorder data. This would not work in song mode, as the parts are played back automatically.
Nevertheless, playing parts on top of the event recorder data can only be possible if this part is empty in the event recorder data as well. Otherwise it would need another sound engine inside of the electribe. |
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Re-Member
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Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 657
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Olivander12 wrote: | i know that and I never said something about rendering midi. The problem is, that in the video above the guy seems to play something on top of the event recorder data. This would not work in song mode, as the parts are played back automatically.
Nevertheless, playing parts on top of the event recorder data can only be possible if this part is empty in the event recorder data as well. Otherwise it would need another sound engine inside of the electribe. |
This is entirely incorrect. On both my MC-505 and microSTATION, I can sequence out every single MIDI channel into a full length song and still manually play additional notes on top of it all, regardless if the part is blank or not. The synth engine just stacks the note information together as if you were playing a chord. You don't need two synth engines for this feature to work. MIDI has nothing to do with the actual sound generator, it's just control data for triggering it. As I said earlier, MIDI allows you to stacks multiple streams of data together.
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Roland Juno-60, SH-101, TR-606, MC-505, Casio CZ-101, Yamaha DX100, DX11, Kawai R-50e // Korg R3, microSTATION, Monotribe, MS-20 Mini, SQ-1, minilogue, electribe sampler, Volca series: Bass, Keys, Beats, Sample, FM, Kick, Moog Theremin
Last edited by Re-Member on Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Olivander12
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Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 347
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Re-Member wrote: | | Olivander12 wrote: | i know that and I never said something about rendering midi. The problem is, that in the video above the guy seems to play something on top of the event recorder data. This would not work in song mode, as the parts are played back automatically.
Nevertheless, playing parts on top of the event recorder data can only be possible if this part is empty in the event recorder data as well. Otherwise it would need another sound engine inside of the electribe. |
This is entirely incorrect. On both my MC-505 and microSTATION, I can sequence out every single MIDI channel and still manually play additional notes on top of it all, regardless if the part is blank or not. The synth engine just stacks the note information together as if you were playing a chord. You don't need two engines for this feature to work. MIDI has nothing to do with the actual sound generator, it's just control data for triggering it. |
Yes, but in his video he was playing long phrases on top of the event recording data. So I was assuming that this part has to be empty, because otherwise the notes would have effected each other. Also, some people said the event recorder and other patterns to work independently. This is not possible. |
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Re-Member
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Posts: 657
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Olivander12 wrote: | | So I was assuming that this part has to be empty, because otherwise the notes would have effected each other. Also, some people said the event recorder and other patterns to work independently. This is not possible. |
No, you were clearly saying that if a MIDI part is being controlled by the sequencer, it can't be also played manually, period. You even went to the length of saying it HAD to be some kind of audio recorder because such a thing wouldn't be possible using one synth engine. I already stated several post back that it was possible as long as the polyphony allowed for it, but it doesn't really sound like you're all that familiar with how MIDI sequencers work. You could chain twenty of them together and as long as they are all on the right channel, the instrument will read data from every single one.
_________________
Roland Juno-60, SH-101, TR-606, MC-505, Casio CZ-101, Yamaha DX100, DX11, Kawai R-50e // Korg R3, microSTATION, Monotribe, MS-20 Mini, SQ-1, minilogue, electribe sampler, Volca series: Bass, Keys, Beats, Sample, FM, Kick, Moog Theremin |
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Olivander12
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Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 347
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Re-Member wrote: | | Olivander12 wrote: | | So I was assuming that this part has to be empty, because otherwise the notes would have effected each other. Also, some people said the event recorder and other patterns to work independently. This is not possible. |
No, you were clearly saying that if a MIDI part is being controlled by the sequencer, it can't be also played manually, period. You even went to the length of saying it HAD to be some kind of audio recorder because such a thing wouldn't be possible using one synth engine. I already stated several post back that it was possible as long as the polyphony allowed for it, but it doesn't really sound like you're all that familiar with how MIDI sequencers work. |
If event recording and pattern playback works independently, the event recorder must be an audio recorder. This is the discussion, because that would enable a lot of possibilites. The fact that parts of a playing pattern can be triggered manually while playback is nothing outstanding. I was referring to this question, which only can be answered with a "yes" if the event recorder records audio. Otherwise, it is not possible to play pattern on top of any event recording data. |
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Re-Member
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Posts: 657
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Olivander12 wrote: | | If event recording and pattern playback works independently, the event recorder must be an audio recorder.... Otherwise, it is not possible to play pattern on top of any event recording data. |
So now you've gone full circle saying it's impossible again, haha! And after all I've explained to you about how MIDI operates. Oh, this is great...
Ok then, assuming you are correct, please explain exactly why the machine can't possibly have two MIDI sequencers built in, one for controlling note pattern data and the other for controlling other MIDI events? We've established that this is how the other Grooveboxes and earlier Electribes operate, what makes this new one so different? I want a good explanation here.
_________________
Roland Juno-60, SH-101, TR-606, MC-505, Casio CZ-101, Yamaha DX100, DX11, Kawai R-50e // Korg R3, microSTATION, Monotribe, MS-20 Mini, SQ-1, minilogue, electribe sampler, Volca series: Bass, Keys, Beats, Sample, FM, Kick, Moog Theremin |
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Olivander12
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Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 347
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Re-Member wrote: | | Olivander12 wrote: | | If event recording and pattern playback works independently, the event recorder must be an audio recorder.... Otherwise, it is not possible to play pattern on top of any event recording data. |
So now you've gone full circle saying it's impossible again, haha! And after all I've explained to you about how MIDI operates. Oh, this is great...
Ok then, assuming you are correct, please explain exactly why the machine can't possibly have two MIDI sequencers built in, one for controlling note pattern data and the other for controlling other MIDI events? We've established that this is how the other Grooveboxes and earlier Electribes operate, what makes this new one so different? I want a good explanation here. |
I think you do not understand me.
Some folks were claiming, that you make an event recording of, let's say, Pattern A. Pattern A has 16 Parts. You mute/unmute parts, turn some knobs etc. You save this perfomance as an event recording.
Then there is Pattern B. It has 16 different parts than Pattern A. Now, I want to play Pattern B on top of the event recording data I previously recorded. If the event recorder records midi data, that would mean that the electribe has to render the midi notes into sounds from two different patterns, with 32 different parts. I dont know, but I strongly doubt that this is possible.
Last edited by Olivander12 on Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DrHoo
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Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 657
Location: North Wales, UK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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This is what i reckon ! The event recorder records data, that's it. It remembers stuff. I can't say for a fact but i doubt that it's an audio recorder. Ok so the macine records note input too but even if that is audio i think it still remembers it as data. Sorry for the interuption, just my thinking that's all.
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My current Korg gear. MS20 Mini... & now the .... Oh, maybe not !
...Had a few other Korg things over the years. |
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robosardine
Platinum Member
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 520
Location: Forfar. Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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It is not an audio or a midi recorder anyway- like I stated earlier- the Event Recorder is particular to the electribe only- it is self contained- and not for sharing. It records the buttons and twiddles you make- then does it again for you when you ask it to- just like the organ grinder and his monkey. If you want the audio recorded- another (recording) machine will be required- It will not play or record audio. It cannot play other machines- they are only interested in midi- the Event recorder does not do midi.
Overdubbing is well established- and has been for some time- on midi groovebox/workstation instruments.  |
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Olivander12
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Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 347
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| robosardine wrote: | It is not an audio or a midi recorder anyway- like I stated earlier- the Event Recorder is particular to the electribe only- it is self contained- and not for sharing. It records the buttons and twiddles you make- then does it again for you when you ask it to- just like the organ grinder and his monkey. If you want the audio recorded- another (recording) machine will be required- It will not play or record audio. It cannot play other machines- they are only interested in midi- the Event recorder does not do midi.
Overdubbing is well established- and has been for some time- on midi groovebox/workstation instruments. |
But there is still the question, what you can do while event recording data is playing. My point simply is, that you probably wont be able to manually play something different than the pattern the event recorder is playing back. |
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DrHoo
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 657
Location: North Wales, UK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| robosardine wrote: | It is not an audio or a midi recorder anyway- like I stated earlier- the Event Recorder is particular to the electribe only- it is self contained- and not for sharing. It records the buttons and twiddles you make- then does it again for you when you ask it to- just like the organ grinder and his monkey. If you want the audio recorded- another (recording) machine will be required- It will not play or record audio. It cannot play other machines- they are only interested in midi- the Event recorder does not do midi.
Overdubbing is well established- and has been for some time- on midi groovebox/workstation instruments. |
That's rational, i'll go for that. As for playing back over an event, i don't get that. If this thing works like an emx then you can only record events within the selected pattern, i wouldn't expect anything else. Perhaps events can be copied to other patterns, i dunno.
_________________
My current Korg gear. MS20 Mini... & now the .... Oh, maybe not !
...Had a few other Korg things over the years. |
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DrHoo
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 657
Location: North Wales, UK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Olivander12 wrote: | | robosardine wrote: | It is not an audio or a midi recorder anyway- like I stated earlier- the Event Recorder is particular to the electribe only- it is self contained- and not for sharing. It records the buttons and twiddles you make- then does it again for you when you ask it to- just like the organ grinder and his monkey. If you want the audio recorded- another (recording) machine will be required- It will not play or record audio. It cannot play other machines- they are only interested in midi- the Event recorder does not do midi.
Overdubbing is well established- and has been for some time- on midi groovebox/workstation instruments. |
But there is still the question, what you can do while event recording data is playing. My point simply is, that you probably wont be able to manually play something different than the pattern the event recorder is playing back. |
It's the other way around me thinks, the pattern is playing back & then the events are like an overdub. You would be working within 1 pattern at a time.
_________________
My current Korg gear. MS20 Mini... & now the .... Oh, maybe not !
...Had a few other Korg things over the years. |
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roblabs
Platinum Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 1396
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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I think robosardine has said it best so far. Its not midi, and not audio, either. Remember, in the manual it says "information". Still want a video to clearly illustrate this. I don't get it, theres already a handful of videos and not one person has bothered to experiment with this?
me personally, I'd have checked out every single feature the electribe has at the moment, I'd lose sleep, ignore eating, and shun the outside world altogether. |
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