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Fezzler
Joined: 07 Apr 2013 Posts: 22 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:49 am Post subject: What is dB out of the mS line outs? Do they need pre-amp? |
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What is dB out of the mS line outs? Do they need pre-amp to be recorded? |
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bradkorg Senior Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2011 Posts: 280
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Pre amp is only needed for weak signal devices like turntables, microphones and guitars.
mS output volume is variable per timbre/voice volume, track volume, midi mastervolume.
mS mainvolume knob can output around/above 0dB dependant on above volume variables and when overdrived, sounds will be distorted and clipping.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level
You DAW/PC have both separate Audio/line-in input volume controls.
First adjust the PC line-input volume control that the loudest sound don't clip, should be around fixed at 50-70 range.
Final variable volumecontrol adjustments with DAW Audio in and VU/peak/dB meter to 0dB peak max. |
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Fezzler
Joined: 07 Apr 2013 Posts: 22 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:08 am Post subject: mS Line Out Output levels |
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Thank you. So the following isn't working with my DAW because the mS isn't outputting enough dB, correct?
1. OUT: 1/4" unbalanced cables out of mS to a control unit that has (2-3 below)
2. IN: Stereo 1/4" balanced inputs for connecting an +4dBu level stereo sources routed thru
3. OUT: Stereo 1/4" balanced outputs for any +4dBu level device...into
4. IN: Sound card 1/4" unbalanced analog 10dB line level inputs - input level controlled by the device (mS).
If I am not mistaken, the mS is outputting less than +4dB which is less than 10dB expected by my line level inputs as well. So I need to add a pre-amp in the signal path. Because now my DAW barely picks up a signal. |
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bradkorg Senior Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2011 Posts: 280
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:04 am Post subject: |
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1) Check/test you setup/settings, skip your router? 2/3 (=passive mixer box?) and connect mS OUT to Soundcard IN directly. The passive router attenuate mS volume and changed the impedance.
2) A common/simple active audio/line mixer (i.e Behringer QX1202USB etc.) can function as a pre-amp/volume booster.
Ok, just done some mS volume testing with FL Studio DAW through onboard Realtek Audio Line input with ASIO4ALLv2 driver (that bypass PC DirectSound driver/line-in volume control)
-It seems mS use volume limiter/dynamic compression fixed at max 0dB peak/output level on the line outputs.
With all mS timbres and mastervolume at max 127, it stay with FLstudio standard 100%=0dB volume-input on mS max 0dB peak outputlevel, visible on FL Studio masteroutput VU meters.
Whether mS volume outputlevel knob is set around less 3/4 to max, overall volume increased but always max 0dB peak.
-When I mix mS sounds with VSTi sounds playing together FL mastervolume now do peak above above +2dB/+3dB. (FL studio VU meter max visible at +3dB)
Conclusions:
A) mS outputs max 0dB peak and use dynamic compression/ouputlevel limiiter, which explains mS "dull" dynamics and some timbres sounds distorted/overdrived at too higher volumelevel.
B) No separate audiomixer is needed, as mS deliver the standard 0dB linelevel outputs standalone.
-I can boost/overdrive/clip the mS inputlevel up with FL Studio input/master volumes above +5.5dB that will sound distorted aka loudness war.
C) So nothing wrong with mS or real soundoutput problems except the 0dB output limiter, it doesn't matter the synths/electro sounds anyway than acoustic piano/instrument sounds. |
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Fezzler
Joined: 07 Apr 2013 Posts: 22 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Yesterday, I recorded my A/D box (M-Audio Firewire 410) pre-amps and line inputs raw outputs while slowly adding gain. Interesting for me, probably obvious to more experienced, the pre-amp was virtually silent until about 65% of gain was added. More interesting, line analog line inputs were just plain noisy. So while I was using the line inputs because they are available to be permanently connected/accessible to my DAW, I'm probably better off using the pre-amps to eliminate some noise floor. |
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bradkorg Senior Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2011 Posts: 280
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Fezzler
Joined: 07 Apr 2013 Posts: 22 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Even better news! I can eliminate the USB as I rarely tweak sounds. |
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