Korg Forums

[Shutoku]

I can't seem to figure out how to get both simultaneously.
Can one put delay in the IFX and reverb in the master?
Can one put reverb in master 1 and delay in master 2 or vice versa?
It appears not. To me it looks like reverb OR delay are only in master 2 and modulation type effects...chorus, rotory speaker, phaser etc are in master 1 as well as IFX. Is this true?

If so I am disappointed. Both delay and reverb are pretty fundamental effects...even my m1 can do both!

Hopefully I'm missing something, please enlighten me oh Korg guru's!!!!

[twstone1983]

As far as i can tell from the parameter guide, you can use any type of effect on any of the MFX or IFX slots. The only time you are limited is when using double effects.


http://i.korg.com/uploads/Support/USA_KROSS_ParamG_E.pdf
_________________
regards,
Tim

Current Gear: N364, TR88, Kross61, Art Pro MPA II, Studio Projects B1, Shure SM58/SM57, Behringer C1, Behringer XM8500, Yamaha MG 10/2, Behringer Xenyx 1002FX, Steinberg CI2, Cubase AI 6.

[Shutoku]

One would think so, but using the editor software, when I try to put an effect in, there is a drop down menu of effects. You can choose all, or certain categories.

If I go through any of the 5 IFX menus and select delay (or reverb for that matter) the menu is empty.

If I go to Master 1 delay...again empty
If I go to Master 2 delay...behold I get a variety of delay choices....but only in Master 2.


Edit: I should add I am talking about combi's here, not programs.

[twstone1983]

have you tried doing it in the keyboard itself rather than the editor? I know it sounds strange but is possible that there is a bug in the editor that is preventing you from setting up the FX the way you want.

I would try it myself but I am not at the Kross at the moment but seems strange it wouldnt be capable of doing something that the previoius generations of Korg syths are capable of.

Not to mention, i would think that if there is a limitation it would be mentioned in the following paragraph of the Parameter Guide:

Effects in each mode

Program mode

With Programs, you can use insert effects to process the final
sound in the same way that you use the Filter, Amplifier, and EQ
(equalizer) to process the sound from the oscillators (OSC 1 & 2).
You can also use insert effects on the Drum Track and the step
sequencer.
Then the master effects are used to create overall ambience such as
reverb to make final adjustments. All of these settings can be made
independently for each program.

Combination, Sequencer mode

In Combination and Sequencer modes, you can use the insert
effects to process the program sound of each timbre/track. You can
then use the master effects to create overall ambience to make final
adjustments.

In Combination mode you can adjust these settings for each combination,
and in Sequencer mode you can make them for each
song.You can use the Copy From Program, Copy Insert Effect, or Copy
Master Effect functions to copy effect settings from Program
mode.

In Sequencer mode, you can switch between effects or modify the
effect parameters and record these changes, so that effects will
switch automatically or effect parameters will be modified automatically
as the song plays back.

Note: The effect settings specified for a program are not recalled
automatically when you select a program for a timbre in
Combination mode or for a track in Sequencer mode. You'll need
to adjust these settings separately, for example by using the
functions listed above.]
_________________
regards,
Tim

Current Gear: N364, TR88, Kross61, Art Pro MPA II, Studio Projects B1, Shure SM58/SM57, Behringer C1, Behringer XM8500, Yamaha MG 10/2, Behringer Xenyx 1002FX, Steinberg CI2, Cubase AI 6.

[tommymandel]

I've also noticed that some effects are not always available, possibly because they're 'dual' effects, as TW mentioned above - but it was difficult (or impossible, I forget) to get a Delay and Reverb on at the same time. I'll try again...

I still couldn't...

[Shutoku]

Ok well I went through the IFX straight from the Kross instead of the editor, but got the same results.

So I went through a ton of combis and found not a single one has delay (or reverb) in any IFX slot, so I have to conclude that it is not possible.

I get that it is an entry level product and overall I'm still very happy with it, but this is a bit of a drag, and seems like an odd limitation in this day and age.

For me I am using the Kross as the "brain" of a multi keyboard set up (three right now with the second being an sp250 and the third being my old analog mono/poly. Once I pick up a midi merger I'll bring my m1 back into the fold as a controller) so I was hoping to be able to for example, but delay on a tron flute, reverb on a piano and rotary speaker on an organ without any reverb. This is of course no problem with mainstage 3, but I don't like relying on a computer live....hence the Kross purchase.

Oh well.

[twstone1983]

After getting home lastnight, i sat infront of the Kross to check out the effects myself and got the same results as you guys. There are a total of 120 Single Size effects and 13 Double effects. MFX1 is limited to 87 single and had all the double. MFX2 has all the single but no double. IFX have even less single effect available (somewhere in the upper 60s) and IFX1-4 can use all double but IFX5 cannot use any double.

This is odd to me as well. I get this is a budget board but my Korg TR (which is the budget version of the Triton series) is capable of using a reverb on MFX1 and Delay on MFX2. I am only limited by the fact is has only 1 IFX instead of 5 as the rest of the triton series.

Tom, could you check the X50 adn see if it has similiar limitations in it FX options as the Kross, or is it like the TR? I would imagine it would be just like the TR since they both have essentially the same HI engine.
_________________
regards,
Tim

Current Gear: N364, TR88, Kross61, Art Pro MPA II, Studio Projects B1, Shure SM58/SM57, Behringer C1, Behringer XM8500, Yamaha MG 10/2, Behringer Xenyx 1002FX, Steinberg CI2, Cubase AI 6.

[tommymandel]

I just checked and yes you're right, TW -
the X50 can have a Delay in the iFX and a Reverb in the Mfx.
It can even have a Reverb in the iFX and another Reverb in the Mfx.
It can also have a Delay in Mfx 1 and a Reverb in Mfx2.
But only 1 iFX not 5. - seems like a strange trade-off, but as you or someone else posted a few months back, that might explain the sonic differences between the two 'families' of synths
(Triton,TR,Karma,X50) vs. (Kronos,Krome,Kross).

[twstone1983]

Actually I am wondering if this is limited to the Kross only. Dont have a Krome or a Kronos to compare, but given the price of the Kronos, I can't imaging it would have such a limitation at all. The Krome might also not share the same limitation. And since the Krome is a beefed up M50 which was a watered down M3, I wonder if those boards are limited like the Kross too.

I sent Rich F a message asking if this was intentional and if it could be "fixed" with an OS update in the future. I will report with his response. What I find even more odd is that the Parameter guide makes mo mention of the limitation as far as I can tell.

Update: I reviewed the Krome Param guide and there is a screen shot of the IFX section with 2 of the 5 IFX set to reverb. So based on that I would say the Krome does not have this limitation like the Kross has (considering you cant set any IFX in the Kross to delay or reverb.) The question is, is the limitation intentional or an oversight? Hopfully Rich from Korg can shed some light on that.

Update2: Just saw another SS of the Krome IFX screens that has a delay on IFX3 and Reverb in IFX4. So you can do what the OP is doing from IFX alone, I would imagine the MFX are also capable of doing this on the Krome.
_________________
regards,
Tim

Current Gear: N364, TR88, Kross61, Art Pro MPA II, Studio Projects B1, Shure SM58/SM57, Behringer C1, Behringer XM8500, Yamaha MG 10/2, Behringer Xenyx 1002FX, Steinberg CI2, Cubase AI 6.

[tommymandel]

S69 Multitap Cho/Delay is available as mFx1, along with a Reverb in mFx2. But the maximum delay is 110ms. .

[twstone1983]

yeah Tommy, I saw that too. One thing I noticed about the Kross VS othe Korgs (TR, Krome, M50) was that on the Kross for MFX1 and the IFX, all the settings start with an "S" or "D" but for MFX2, its all numerical. On the other Korgs, all MFX and IFX are numerical.
_________________
regards,
Tim

Current Gear: N364, TR88, Kross61, Art Pro MPA II, Studio Projects B1, Shure SM58/SM57, Behringer C1, Behringer XM8500, Yamaha MG 10/2, Behringer Xenyx 1002FX, Steinberg CI2, Cubase AI 6.

[twstone1983]

OK guys, well Rich F has not replied yet, but i found some info that pretty much confirms the limitation.

Go here: http://i.korg.com/kross and click on "Specifications" and scroll down to where it says "Effect Types" and you will see this:

Effect Types:

Total: 134 types
*74 types for Insert Effect
*101 types for Master Effect 1
*120 types for Master Effect 2

So there you have it. The 74 IFX include the 15 Double sized FX, the 101 for MFX1 also include those 14 D FX. The 120 for MFX2 are the 120 Singl Sized FX only, no double.

Oh well, in my message to Rich I did request that they think about opening this up with a future OS update be we all know how Korg is with those, especially with the lower end insturments. So I guess just enjoy the Kross for what it is!
_________________
regards,
Tim

Current Gear: N364, TR88, Kross61, Art Pro MPA II, Studio Projects B1, Shure SM58/SM57, Behringer C1, Behringer XM8500, Yamaha MG 10/2, Behringer Xenyx 1002FX, Steinberg CI2, Cubase AI 6.

[twstone1983]

As Promised, Rich F got back to me today and heres his repsonse-

Hi Tim,

Sorry I’m just catching up on my emails now.

The limitation is not so much “intended” as it is “necessary”. Kross’s processor isn’t quite as powerful as its big brothers, and the number crunching required for our effects can require a lot of resources. This is especially true of delays and reverbs, since they keep the effect going after you take your finger off the key.

So, Korg chose to maintain the high quality of the effects, rather than limiting their potential for the sake of using more of them at once. I hope it doesn’t cause too much of an inconvenience in your songwriting. Keep in mind you can also use the Audio Recorder function to print audio, and then add more sounds with different effects.

And for what it’s worth, I’m thrilled that you’re pushing your Kross to its limits.

Thanks,
-Rich
_________________
regards,
Tim

Current Gear: N364, TR88, Kross61, Art Pro MPA II, Studio Projects B1, Shure SM58/SM57, Behringer C1, Behringer XM8500, Yamaha MG 10/2, Behringer Xenyx 1002FX, Steinberg CI2, Cubase AI 6.

[JnC]

The Kross has a lot of shared iEDS architecture with the Microstation. And the Microstation is strongly related to the PS60. The PS60 had 3 dedicated sections on the right panel for modulation effects (chorus, flanger, phaser), reverb/delay (but not both), and EQ. This section became master effects 1 & 2, and the "total" effect when it was ported to the MicroStation. I suspect the limitations were carried along as well, due to it's origins, and never addressed.

I too would think that it's something that should be improved with a firmware update, but I have heard some modulations within the effects that sound like that queasiness that comes from aliasing, with the current synth engine. I don't know if that would get worse, but it is disheartening to have over 100 other elaborate effects on an engine that can't string the two most common effects that's been used for decades. Personally I'd be willing to have a modest hit in polyphony if that would free up the extra processing bandwidth: I don't think I'd miss 10 notes or so, if that would provide the extra bandwidth.

[BrunoJ]

Did some of you make any tests how effects are transfer from program to combi? Especially if eventual settings of reverb and delay on individual programs can work together in one combi (still assigned to individual voices).
I almost decided to buy Kross to replace X50 but after reading this topic I have my doubts again.
Appreciate to have more information about ifx/mfx. Bigger number of ifx'es is one of main reason I'm considering such exchange