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markn Full Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2011 Posts: 206 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:16 pm Post subject: Mysterious voice stealing |
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Hi,
i have a mysterious problem and i donīt get why.
My Kronos is on V 2.1.0
I just built a new Combi consisting of three Programs. This combi was created from scratch out of an init-combi. The first three patches are on, all others set to off and muted.
Prog1 - a monophonic MS-20 Prog (3 voices)
Prog2 - a CX-3 Organ
Prog3 - a AL-1 Patch, monophonic (2 voices)
Prog 1 and 2 are set to MidiGlobal CH-1, Patch 3 is Midi CH-15. An M-Audio Axiom is connected via USB to Kronos. I already checked with a midi monitor, that Axiom is definitely sending just 1 note on channel 15, no stacking etc... Performance meters on Kronos are green (19%)
When i play a chord on the organ and hold it with the sustain pedal and play the lead on the Axiom, everything is fine. If i hold the Organ chord on Kronos by hand and play on the Axiom, the Organ voices disappear almost instantly. See the following video:
Any ideas? _________________ Kronos88, Kronos 2/61, Dave Smith Pro-2, Minimoog Voyager, MacBook Pro, LogicProX - and a whole bunch of older stuff... |
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markn Full Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2011 Posts: 206 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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To make sure that Axiom/USB is not causing the error, i just unplugged it and connected my Minimoog via conventional Midi, same result.
Who ist stealing my voices? _________________ Kronos88, Kronos 2/61, Dave Smith Pro-2, Minimoog Voyager, MacBook Pro, LogicProX - and a whole bunch of older stuff... |
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jerrythek Platinum Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 2931
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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I think the issue has to do with how you have the monophonic MS-20 set up on the the same MIDI channel as the polyphonic organ. Are they split?
Describe the full conditions of both of those timbres... that'll likely lead to the problem.
Jerry |
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markn Full Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2011 Posts: 206 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your answer jerrythek.
Yes MS20 and Organ are both on MidGlobalCH-1, and they are split.
But both have their separate Keyzone. MS20 is from C-1 to B1, Organ is from C2 to G9. This is supposed to work i guess... it alway did - so far
And why is the organ not affected when held by the sustain pedal?
Which further conditions could be helpful? _________________ Kronos88, Kronos 2/61, Dave Smith Pro-2, Minimoog Voyager, MacBook Pro, LogicProX - and a whole bunch of older stuff... |
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markn Full Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2011 Posts: 206 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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What i found out meanwhile:
It has nothing to do with the MS20 on Prog1, if i set it to off, or choose another Prog, same result. The notes get lost when playing the Synth on CH15 from the external keyboard on the same octave layer as the Organ on GlobalCH1. Seems like the organ would also get triggered by CH 15 even though its on CH1... If i play the Synth an octave higher than the organ, itīs fine.
Maybe KARMA? It was an init combi though, and meanwhile i initialized the KarmaModule for this one again... _________________ Kronos88, Kronos 2/61, Dave Smith Pro-2, Minimoog Voyager, MacBook Pro, LogicProX - and a whole bunch of older stuff... |
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jerrythek Platinum Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 2931
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm... I have replicated your setup and can confirm the problem. And it happens regardless of which engine is used for Timbre 2, so it's not a CX-3 specific issue.
Interesting... I'm going to punt to Dan and crew. Sorry I couldn't find it right away.
Jerry |
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markn Full Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2011 Posts: 206 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your effort, Jerry
Meanwhile i found out, that it happens in Program-Mode as well. Even though Kronos is set to MidiCH-1(Global), all engines react to incoming events on MidiCH15 from the external keyboard even in Program mode. The notes played on the external board are going off.
Weird...
Markus _________________ Kronos88, Kronos 2/61, Dave Smith Pro-2, Minimoog Voyager, MacBook Pro, LogicProX - and a whole bunch of older stuff... |
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X-Trade Moderator
Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 6494 Location: Leeds, UK
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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I think this may be somehow related to the same issue I posted here:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=86497
I'm guessing it has something to do with the overlapping but transposed key ranges. _________________ Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro |
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markn Full Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2011 Posts: 206 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, itīs a similar effect. But in the case you describe it happens all on the same midi-channel, so it is probably an overlapping effect. In my case it happens on different midi-channels.
Markus _________________ Kronos88, Kronos 2/61, Dave Smith Pro-2, Minimoog Voyager, MacBook Pro, LogicProX - and a whole bunch of older stuff... |
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markn Full Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2011 Posts: 206 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Would it be safe an possible to go back to V 2.06? Same procedure as a normal update?
Iīm under serious deadline pressure... _________________ Kronos88, Kronos 2/61, Dave Smith Pro-2, Minimoog Voyager, MacBook Pro, LogicProX - and a whole bunch of older stuff... |
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markn Full Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2011 Posts: 206 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, couldīt wait - iīm back on 2.06.
The issue is no longer present.
Seems like we have a serious bug in 2.1.0.
Markus _________________ Kronos88, Kronos 2/61, Dave Smith Pro-2, Minimoog Voyager, MacBook Pro, LogicProX - and a whole bunch of older stuff... |
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NuSkoolTone Approved Merchant
Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 1069
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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markn wrote: | Ok, couldīt wait - iīm back on 2.06.
The issue is no longer present.
Seems like we have a serious bug in 2.1.0.
Markus |
Do you know if you had the global muting in "Live" or "Studio" mode? _________________ Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth |
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markn Full Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2011 Posts: 206 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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What do you mean by "global muting"? _________________ Kronos88, Kronos 2/61, Dave Smith Pro-2, Minimoog Voyager, MacBook Pro, LogicProX - and a whole bunch of older stuff... |
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jerrythek Platinum Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 2931
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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I already tried the Global Muting parameter, it had no effect on this situation.
Jerry |
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danatkorg Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 4204 Location: California, USA
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Looking into this now. _________________ Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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