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Kross Vs. M50, Vs. Krome, vs Microstation...Arrgh!

 
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iluvchiclets
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject: Kross Vs. M50, Vs. Krome, vs Microstation...Arrgh! Reply with quote

Hey everyone,

Talk about a loaded title!

I was a very happy M50 owner up until a year ago when I sold it. I also own a Motif MOX6 and Kontakt - at the time I sold the M50, I could not afford to keep everything. And so, I thought the Yamaha and Native Instruments would keep me happy. Turns out maybe I was wrong...I have always had an eye out for an inexpensive second-hand M50 or perhaps one of the newer offerings. I really miss the Korg pianos - the Yamaha's are a bit sterile in comparison to my ears.

I should also mention I owned the Microstation when it was first released, and traded it in for the M50. There were a lot of sounds on the Microstation I missed as well. It seemed to my ears that Korg had perfected some pianos and other sounds with their EDS-i, and perhaps the M50 was starting to show it's age?

Anyhow, now with the Kross being available, my GAS pains are accelerating!

Do I:

- buy an M50 and relive all my favourite sounds?
- buy the Krome (the M50 replacement) and have it all and more? Does the Krome have all the waveforms included in the M50 plus the improved pianos and EP's?
- or do I buy a Kross, save lots of money, and enjoy the latest of the EDS-i programming?

I tried a Kross 88 recently, and I didn't feel like the pianos were too special off the bat. I was only able to try if briefly in a music store, but i didn't hear the lineage from my M50. Really liked the EP programs on the Kross, though. They definitely feel improved over the M50. And it's price was very attractive (approx $1000 CAD for a weighted keyboard)

I wish there weren't so many choices from Korg! Is there something I will miss on the Kross if I buy the Krome? Are the Krome Combi's as inspiring as the Microstation?

Too many questions, I know, I know. I wish I knew which one to lust after. Any advice for a buyer would be appreciated!

Nice to read the forum again after a year! This place was always one of my favorites.
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tommymandel
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though I love my Kross, you sound like you'd be happier with a Krome because you loved your M50, unless you'd miss the Kross' drum Step Sequencer.
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PianoManChuck
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd probably like the Kronos the best if you could spring for it.
The Krome is also excellent with both its samples and the touch screen, but you may not like the action on the keybed.
To make sure, you should probably visit your local retailer and plan to spend some time on the Kross and the Krome (supposedly the same keybed - NH - but it sure didn't feel the same to me) and the Kronos.
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iluvchiclets
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies folks.

Unfortunately, the Kronos is well out of my price-range. Actually, I can't afford any of this stuff! But I am always recalling the fun I had with the Korg sounds, so I am thinking about the 2 newer lower-entry keyboards (Krome, Kross) as opposed to simply getting another M50.

I am still doing lots of research. Just came back from trying the Kross 88 again at my local music store. For some reason the pianos are not knocking me out...I thought the M50 had more variety and character? It could be all down to programming? I have yet to find a list of the Kross waveforms on the internet.

I do like the Kross EP's better than the M50 though. They have been improved for sure.

Hammonds are always sub-par...
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tommymandel
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iluvchiclets wrote:


Hammonds are always sub-par...


that's what I thought until recently. I made a few of my own, mostly tweaks, but then I used the Organ 000 Program at a gig, and, live with a band thru my amp, it a was great, Allman Brothers type of B3. The wheel added a little extra drive, just enough, and the Leslie was convincing. Then at a rehearsal last night, Ballade Pale Organ Combi sounded really really gorgeous. Try 'em! Idea
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iluvchiclets
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks tommymandel,

Earlier today I heard someone else playing the Kross organs in the music store, and they actually sounded pretty good!

I find that often - when someone else is playing you can listen and enjoy the sounds without the act of playing interfering with your enjoyment. I am still doing lots of investigating into this very interesting release from Korg.
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richie1027



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: thnx Reply with quote

appreciated your post and i too share all your questions. i still jam with an M50 73 and a Motif xf.

I wanted to go with a lighter keyboard (kross or krome) but unfort. i have a new M50 88 that I can't get rid of. It was a present from my wife and other than booting it up, I never use. TOo heavy to gig with so its a large paperweight.

even priced at 900 i couldn't get a bite oh well.
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nico88



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:55 pm    Post subject: M50 or Kross or Krome or.....? Reply with quote

I am in the same dilemma. I love my M50, and I've gigged mine to death. I hate to let her go but she's needing a service on the keybed every year and she's a bit tatty now. But for sounds and editing, and the brilliant weighted action, its the best keyboard I've owned.
But I'm getting older now, so I want something lighter and more portable, but it will be hard to beat the M50. I really wanted to love the Kross but everybody steers me towards the Kronos as the closest relative to the M50. But I've also looked at Roland Juno DS88 and Yamaha MX88, because it might just be time for a change!
Help!
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: M50 or Kross or Krome or.....? Reply with quote

nico88 wrote:
I am in the same dilemma. I love my M50, and I've gigged mine to death. I hate to let her go but she's needing a service on the keybed every year and she's a bit tatty now. But for sounds and editing, and the brilliant weighted action, its the best keyboard I've owned.
But I'm getting older now, so I want something lighter and more portable, but it will be hard to beat the M50. I really wanted to love the Kross but everybody steers me towards the Kronos as the closest relative to the M50. But I've also looked at Roland Juno DS88 and Yamaha MX88, because it might just be time for a change!
Help!


Maybe you can find another used M50. I still use mine as well, but mainly use it for lead guitar sounds that I have made, including simulated slides and different EFX combinations. I had two M50-61's but sold one to a good friend who uses it live in her band. I program it for her and it is a very powerful instrument, even now.

The Krome would be considered a direct replacement for the M50. The Krome has better piano and EP sounds and I am fairly certain that it has most, if not all, of the synth and other sounds that the M50 would have, including many new ones.

The Kross, especially the Kross 2, could also be a good option, but you will miss the touch screen and the ability to use any effect in any combination. You can use Reverb/Delay/etc... in whatever config you want to on the M50. This is not the case with the Kross 1 and Kross 2. I believe that the Kross is the replacement for the Microstation, but with bigger keys and less polyphony. The Microstation had 120 notes of poly and the Kross 1 had 80. The Kross 2 has 120 notes of poly so it is back on par with the specs of the Microstation.

There are also new libraries for the Kross 2 and one of them is the OASYS piano. For most work, I bet very few people would be able to tell that it is a 4-layer piano. I recall the OASYS piano sounds being very good.

I have 4 of the Kross 1 units; two are 88-key and two are 61-key. They serve me very well and I can make just about ANY sound I need. Due to the limited EFX configurations on the Kross (and Kross 2), I do not use the Kross for many lead sounds at all, especially guitar leads. Those will be from the M50 and from my PA700.

As far as versatility goes, I do not think that you are going to find it in the Yamaha MX or the Roland Juno DS synths at all. Korg really has the workstation thing down, even in the Kross. The piano sounds, when modified a bit, really do sound great, especially considering the price point of a Kross 61. With that said, that same lady friend who bought my other M50 also just bought a Kross 2-88. THe pianos were terrible out of the box, but after a bit of programming, I got a few that she will mainly use in her band and they sound really good. They are all too dry and dull for my tastes, and so I added a bit more Reverb and removed the diffusion settings so more of the high end of the Reverb would cut through. She was very pleased with the piano sounds from the Kross 2-88 (which are the same on the Kross 2-61). With a bit of tweaking, you have a lot of options.

I have owned a Yamaha MX and and earlier Roland Juno series (but not the DS). Korgs are just easier to navigate around on, in my opinion. Rolands also have a very distinct piano sound and I prefer the sound of the Korg over the Juno DS. Since we are talking about entry level and mid-level synths, I will not talk much about the V-Piano (which I LOVE).

I do see M50 synths still for sale every now and then, but they are getting harder to find. With that said, if you like it, then find a used one.

I still use Ensoniq synths and all of thos are around 30 years old. If you love what you love, then you will find ways to keep them alive Smile

Grace,
Harry
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Scott
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: M50 or Kross or Krome or.....? Reply with quote

Musicwithharry wrote:
I believe that the Kross is the replacement for the Microstation, but with bigger keys and less polyphony. The Microstation had 120 notes of poly and the Kross 1 had 80. The Kross 2 has 120 notes of poly so it is back on par with the specs of the Microstation.

As a lightweight, low-cost full-sized board, I'd say it took over the PS60's place in the line, but the PS60, Microstation, and Kross all use the EDS-i sound engine. The actual sample sets and methods of operation are different, though. There is some discussion of Microstation vs Kross at http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=115170&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Musicwithharry wrote:
I have owned a Yamaha MX and and earlier Roland Juno series (but not the DS). Korgs are just easier to navigate around on, in my opinion.
Each has its pros and cons. Kross is the only one with a full sequencer, and it has the best MIDI functionality of the bunch. It's also the smallest/lightest 61.

Roland can change sounds without held/sustained/decaying notes being cut off (Yamaha can do this to a more limited extent...only within pre-defined sets of 16 sounds, only 4 of which can have effects, but that's still more than Kross can do). Roland also gives you about 50 mb of space to load your own custom keyboard-playable samples. Roland is best for 2-way splits, because it gives you front panel volume controls for both sounds, and lets you easily independently change the sound (and octave and volume level) for the sound on one side of the split, without interrupting the sound you're playing on the other side, giving you some of the flexibility you'd typically need two separate physical keyboards for. It's also the only one of the three available in a 76, which is nice for having more keys for piano, or to cover the full range of a Wurli/Rhodes/Clav, or to have more real estate for the splits.

Yamaha has (IMO) the generally the best sounding acoustic instrument simulations of the three, and it comes in a 49 which can be nice if you're looking for something even more portable than the Kross. Though it has the least functionality overall. You can overcome many of its limitations with a third party editor, though.
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: M50 or Kross or Krome or.....? Reply with quote

Scott wrote:

As a lightweight, low-cost full-sized board, I'd say it took over the PS60's place in the line, but the PS60, Microstation, and Kross all use the EDS-i sound engine. The actual sample sets and methods of operation are different, though.


Most of what you have said I can agree with.

I did not include the PS60 (PS) (which I also had one for a time) because it was not a workstation, like the Microstation (MS) and Kross are. I actually liked the PS60 because of how easy it was to layer different sounds and the real-time knobs right there. There was very little menu diving on it and I thought that was great for live work. It was too bad that it did not last too long.

Maybe a more accurate description of the Kross, upon further consideration was that it was a newer version of the Microstation and PS60 put together (albeit the Kross 1 had less polyphony).

I had considered a Juno DS at one point, and agree that it is the only one that offers a 76-key option that the others do not.

With regard to the MX series, it is easier to work with an editor to make any real changes with it, but in my opinion, it kind of takes away from the 'all in one' feature that the Kross has. You can program the Kross from the screen (which user will get used to over time, even if their previous model had a touch sreen). You can sequence on it, edit those sequences, add ARPs, and basically do everything from the screen without an editor.

It is too bad that more of these boards do not allow for smooth sound transitions though when changing programs. Even the new i3 has that option (as long as you have the foot pedal held down before you make the program change).

The Microstation, PS60 and Kross synths do feature the EDS-i engine, but I believe that the Microstation and PS60 shared the same 49Mb of space. The difference between the MS and PS was that the PS allocated more space toward piano samples and they were better than on the MS. I owned two of them and the aforementioned PS, and can attest to the better piano sounds on the PS. The Kross 1 had 114Mb in the EDS-i engine. The pianos are markedly better on the original Kross than either the MS or PS. The Kross 2 has 149Mb (I believe) and also has an additional 128Mb of User sample RAM (although I think that the User samples are not mappable across the keyboard and are designated for the sample pads). All three (actually 4 if you consider Kross 1 and Kross 2 to be different models) still share the limited EFX engine.

The Kross units are battery powered, where the MS and PS were not. I remember quite a number of conversations about that. How could Korg make something as portable as the MS but not make it battery powered...

In any case, all of them have their strengths and weaknesses Smile I totally agree.

For live work, I would consider the Kross or the Juno DS because of the live capabilities. For studio work or with a computer, maybe the MX would be better suited for that. It is also hard to argue with Yamaha's piano sounds. They are still pretty much the standard. In fact, I have a Yamaha C5 Grand as the main piano sound in my PA700 Smile I also really like Kawai's piano sounds, but Yamaha's seems to have gotten it right and maybe they should; they've been making pianos for 125+ years...

With regard to the OP's query because of the age of the M50, the Krome or the Kross (depending on the sounds the OP is using) might be the best options. I know that it really boils down to personal opinions of the different sounds, but I still think that Korg has the best overall sounds than the other manufacturers out there, especially when looking from a price vs features standpoint.

The Krome would be the logical replacement for the M50, but the Kross may also work. Another thing to consider; the original Krome still has the piano sounds and such that the Krome EX has (maybe they've updated them too) and in the used market, the Krome 61 can be had, at least here in the states, for around $600-$700. That is not a bad price point either Smile

Grace,
Harry
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iluvchiclets
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha ha! Many years since I wrote the original post! Smile

Since then? Jeez...I've owned a 2nd M50, a 2nd Microstation, The Kross 1 and 2, as well as a Krome. I'm onto other things these lately (Kurzweil, MX49, Dave Smith, Sequential, Nord) but I do have a few Volcas and have owned both Minilogues.

I can save you a lot of time and worry. Go with the Krome. The Microstation and Kross are less expensive options, and you get what you pay for in this instance. The Krome sounds amazing.

My two cents! Smile
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iluvchiclets wrote:
Ha ha! Many years since I wrote the original post! Smile

Since then? Jeez...I've owned a 2nd M50, a 2nd Microstation, The Kross 1 and 2, as well as a Krome. I'm onto other things these lately (Kurzweil, MX49, Dave Smith, Sequential, Nord) but I do have a few Volcas and have owned both Minilogues.

I can save you a lot of time and worry. Go with the Krome. The Microstation and Kross are less expensive options, and you get what you pay for in this instance. The Krome sounds amazing.

My two cents! Smile


It is neat when older posts come back around Smile

Even though I feel the Krome to be an 'odd duck' in their lineup (when compared to the features of the Kronos, Nautilus, and Kross), the Krome is the natural replacement for the M50. I consider it to the be the direct replacement in design and function.

The Krome would be the logical choice as a replacement for the M50.

Grace,
Harry
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Koekepan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to throw my hat into the ring, at this very late date:

I have both Kross I and Krome.

They're both great, in different ways, for different purposes. The Kross is a genuine, all-out, audio-included workstation, just a rather limited (in terms of effects allocation, particularly) one. However, if you want something for banging out a tune that you can then grab and walk away? It's hard to find a better option. I've also done some of my best-reviewed music with it.

The Krome is a studio workhorse. I've taken it on the road, and it performs well (especially as a sound module for a clever sequencer like a Social Entropy Engine) but it comes into its own as a studio master driving other synths, or even as a USB MIDI sound module for a DAW. It does sound better than the Kross, but the Kross doesn't sound bad at all.

The Krome is better for sequencing and polished sounds, the Kross is better for speed and convenience.
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