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QuiRobinez
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 Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Lou wrote: |
I would prefer the midi setup because my keyboard skills are not very good and I can then very easily quantize.
But,
What I did was set the first channel as the external instrument I/O and then set up a couple of midi tracks and worked from combi mode.
I tried setting up a few different ways but midi tracks loose the faders, pans and fx and have to be controlled from Kronos loosing all of Pushes functionality.
If I place external instruments on the midi tracks I get back the faders and pans but they do not control Kronos, you have to do it all it from the Kronos control panel.
Am I not seeing something or is this how it has to be when using midi? |
volume and panning on the push are for audio tracks only, but that doesn't mean that it can't be working. But for volume, panning and all the main paramaters from your Kronos RTC panel you need a midi controller in M4L. You could make one yourself, but that's rather complicated, or wait till mine is finished, because i will share the Midi controller (which works on each channel when you drag it on it and gives you full automation for the RTC parameters and KARMA parameters).
Now to make midi recording (loop mode) work, set up your project screen as follows:
Now there are a few things that are different than the audio approach:
- first of all the Monitor buttons are all set to auto
- the Midi To is set to KRONOS SOUND and the Corresponding midi channel of the sound in the combi (timbre channel)
- No record arming is necessary, because you can do that from the push by pressing the corresponding top row button twice to arm the complete midi row for recording, then you just have to press the pad that you want to record and press it again if you want to stop the loop (clip).
- Every midi channel has a Kronos Midi controller attached to it (see the bottom row)
Now without the midi controller you can just record the midi loops but you still have to do the programming on the kronos it self, however, with the midi controller that i'm currently programming you can modify the following parameters for each midi channel independantly:
- Cutoff
- Reso
- EG Int
- EG Rel
- User 1 - 4
for general use you can use the KARMA Switches and sliders in that control.
Now how does this work, since i created them all as automation parameters you can modify each sound in your clip, just press the automation button on your push (or record it directly in the midi clip) and turn the knobs that you want to automate or change. So let's say you want to raise your cutoff, then press automate and turn the dial, that's all. Of course you could do the same for volume and panning.
The best part is that for each midi channel you have all these parameters automatically mapped to the knobs on your kronos including the parameter names. So you have full hardware control during the midi recording of your clips.
I still need to add a lot of other parameters, the ones you see now are working flawlessly already, but i still need to add the RTC sliders, Vector panel, FX settings, etc.
But when it's finished i will explain this whole midi loop record method including the controller in a new video. And of course i will make the controller available for download on my site for the people that uses Ableton. |
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Lou
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for taking the time with the midi setup explanation Qui, this is all very helpful and appreciated. Will give this a spin this evening. One thing nice about this setup is that you can play the K's keys or use Push. So basically, the "Max Controller Device" you are working on is going to be the connection of the Kronos Control panel and Push functionality. (Give or take which parameters you feel are most useful)
Very kind of you to share this. Will keep a close eye out.. 
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QuiRobinez
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Lou wrote: | | So basically, the "Max Controller Device" you are working on is going to be the connection of the Kronos Control panel and Push functionality. |
no, that's not the purpose of the controller device, although it's quite handy that the push recognises the controllers.
The main purpose is to give the user (producer) automation possibilities for every sound he uses in a combi or sequencer mode in his DAW project. So when i have a pad sound on timbre 3 for instance and i want to raise the cutoff for that pad from 0 to 64 then all i have to do is to record that automation (or draw it in my window) to have that parameter automated for timbre 3. And i can do the same for every other timbre off course, all in realtime midi.
And when you use KARMA then it's possible with that controller to play the tune with karma and automate the KARMA parameters from your control screen in realtime in your project. So for instance you have an arpeggiator pattern playing and you want to make the notes shorter or longer over time and the note range larger or choose a different pattern of the current GE, then all you have to do is to record that movement through the controller on your screen (or draw it in). (of course you could also capture the midi results of KARMA in a seperate MIDI track, but that's a different topic).
What also is great that you can use the controller for KARMA on VST instruments. So when you use an instrument like Native Instruments FM8 or Massive you can draw that midi controller to a Kronos lane, and use the KARMA pattern for FM8 or Massive. Now let's say you selected a Bass Pattern GE and run that through Massive and you want to make the KARMA Generated Notes Longer during the pattern, then all you have to do is to turn KARMA dial 3 on that Controller Device on your screen and the notes you record in realtime in your Massive midi track will be instantly longer. Same applies to the other KARMA parameters like Swing, Note Repeat, chord inversion, etc... It's extremely powerful to use KARMA as an inspirational device for your other synths or vsts.
So basically it gives you the power to use it more or less like a Kronos midi controller for the common RTC performance parameters. The parameters that i've added are based on the CC parameter list in the Manual, but these are all i need when using the kronos in a project. So it's a great addon for ableton users in my opinion. But i think it will make more sense when i show in a video what you can do with it  |
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Lou
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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The MidiMapperCC device is very good but this is going to cover a lot more of the Kronos RTCs. Very powerful addition to Live when using Kronos in a project. I would think this device will take up quite a bit of real estate in the device view but with this much control who cares. Not to mention the added bonus of Push control.
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QuiRobinez
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Lou wrote: | | The MidiMapperCC device is very good but this is going to cover a lot more of the Kronos RTCs. Very powerful addition to Live when using Kronos in a project. I would think this device will take up quite a bit of real estate in the device view but with this much control who cares. Not to mention the added bonus of Push control. |
yes it's rather big, i'm still considering of using tabs for the different sections like RTC panel, KARMA, Tone Control , etc...
Then it would be a lot smaller |
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Lou
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Tabs are a good idea. I'm wondering when push is in device veiw if the right and left arrows could scroll to different tabs within the device?
But really no problem if it doesn't. Must be a lot of programming..
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QuiRobinez
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Lou wrote: | Tabs are a good idea. I'm wondering when push is in device veiw if the right and left arrows could scroll to different tabs within the device?
But really no problem if it doesn't. Must be a lot of programming.. |
yes, when you place controls in tabs you can select the tab controls with your top row buttons of the device.
it's a lot of programming, but it's fun to do and i can use the device myself because i need automation control in my projects and that isn;t available in a normal way for the kronos, so this would solve my problem for me.
i could create the same template in cubase if i needed it, but i use ableton now mainly, so somebody elke has to create that one  |
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Lou
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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For those who use Kronos and Live, this device will make Kronos seem like built-in Live instrument or pretty close to it. I'm getting excited..
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Ksynth
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Lou wrote: | | For those who use Kronos and Live, this device will make Kronos seem like built-in Live instrument or pretty close to it. I'm getting excited.. |
Let's hope we can live long enough to make full use of all this. Push alone would fill many decades.
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Lou
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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So true. 
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QuiRobinez
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| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Lou wrote: | | For those who use Kronos and Live, this device will make Kronos seem like built-in Live instrument or pretty close to it. I'm getting excited.. |
yes, it comes really close to that feeling when i use it in my projects. There is still one big thing i need to sort out, and that is to send the 'stored' kronos midi device values per channel in a project to the kronos timbres. If i succeed at that then i have also included total recall in my projects for the parameters i've included. That would mean you could use a basic combi or sequencer and modify the parameters through the device, and when you load the project again, the default parameter settings of the kronos will be adjusted to your earlier 'tweaks.'
I know how to do this in theory, but as you probably know M4L is not the easiest environment to program so it takes some time to sort it out that it actually works. |
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Ksynth
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Francois
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Qui.
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Kronoscopie, tout sur le Kronos en français
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SanderXpander
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Qui, before I invest some hours into this, is there any reason why the basic functionality would't work with an APC40? |
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QuiRobinez
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| SanderXpander wrote: | | Qui, before I invest some hours into this, is there any reason why the basic functionality would't work with an APC40? |
no reason at all why it shouldn't work, it should work the same as the push controller. |
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